Kevin's Watch

Two things I wanted to add to this discussion:

1) Wayfriend - your explanation fails when we consider that later Roger manages to hide himself and his Cavewight army during the Battle of the Kitchen-Sink.

2) Wormy - The PoC cannot control beings from outside of creation but if their powers come from within that creation I think those things can be controlled. Roger's powers of illusion came from the Elohim and Skurj powers - beings from within Creation, so those masking-illusions could be stripped by the PoC. Jeremiah's powers are more questionable. But the driving force there is the Croyel - another being that belongs to the Creation so his will could be subdued to the control of the Blood.

So it was wise of Linden to ask to be SHOWN the truth and not TOLD. She couldn't command Roger and maybe not Jeremiah-Croyel to tell her what she wanted to know because they weren't under the command of the Blood. But the powers they used to hide the truth from her were under its command.

shadowbinding shoe wrote:1) Wayfriend - your explanation fails when we consider that later Roger manages to hide himself and his Cavewight army during the Battle of the Kitchen-Sink.

Well, my explanations fail all the time, but here I don't know what explanation you are speaking of, and so I don't know which one failed.

Are you saying that "Show me the truth" should still be somehow "in force" many days (and many millennia) later, leaving Roger no way to hide?

wayfriend wrote:

shadowbinding shoe wrote:1) Wayfriend - your explanation fails when we consider that later Roger manages to hide himself and his Cavewight army during the Battle of the Kitchen-Sink.

Well, my explanations fail all the time, but here I don't know what explanation you are speaking of, and so I don't know which one failed.

Are you saying that "Show me the truth" should still be somehow "in force" many days (and many millennia) later, leaving Roger no way to hide?

Also, Linden didn't say, "Always show me the truth!" Merely, "show me the truth!" The truth was then shown, and the Command satisfied.

Orlion wrote:

wayfriend wrote:

shadowbinding shoe wrote:1) Wayfriend - your explanation fails when we consider that later Roger manages to hide himself and his Cavewight army during the Battle of the Kitchen-Sink.

Well, my explanations fail all the time, but here I don't know what explanation you are speaking of, and so I don't know which one failed.

Are you saying that "Show me the truth" should still be somehow "in force" many days (and many millennia) later, leaving Roger no way to hide?

Also, Linden didn't say, "Always show me the truth!" Merely, "show me the truth!" The truth was then shown, and the Command satisfied.

Wayfriend - yep, that's pretty much what I was saying.

Should she qualify her command to make it last? My assumption was that these Commandment would by default be eternal. The Law of Death wasn't repaired after a century or two. There's a reason why the Lord Fatherers were so cautious with it.

My explanation: It's not the words but the intent that matters. Linden wanted to see the truth about her companions in that moment, not in general or about everything. Alternatively the damage she suffers during her battle in the mountains negates her newfound powers or kevin's Dirt hides it.

SS, Elena didn't Command "Break the Law of Death". She Command Kevin to return from death. The breaking of the Law was a side effect of that Command - an unintended consequence. Kevin came back from death ... and then did return to it. But now the door was broken, and he could be called back again, as could anyone else.

So Elena's Command was, as I see it, executed immediately and then was over with. It's the side effects that lingered.

wayfriend wrote:SS, Elena didn't Command "Break the Law of Death". She Command Kevin to return from death. The breaking of the Law was a side effect of that Command - an unintended consequence. Kevin came back from death ... and then did return to it. But now the door was broken, and he could be called back again, as could anyone else.

So Elena's Command was, as I see it, executed immediately and then was over with. It's the side effects that lingered.

That's true but the supposition that this awesome power only grants your wishes for a window of a few hours seems wrong to me. The connection between the PoC and the breaking of laws is not incidental in my opinion. At its basis this power is about changing the laws of creation to fulfill your own personal vision.

shadowbinding shoe wrote: That's true but the supposition that this awesome power only grants your wishes for a window of a few hours seems wrong to me. The connection between the PoC and the breaking of laws is not incidental in my opinion. At its basis this power is about changing the laws of creation to fulfill your own personal vision.

Hmmm...worth pondering, especially the second part. For the first, my impression always was that the Command itself was pretty much like a sniper's shot: specific, targeted, and almost instantaneous. It's all the other [besides the guys head exploding...or not, if you miss] consequences of pulling the trigger that cause the real trouble.

Presumably, the Command negated the illusions fashion by the Coryel and the Kastenessen-Hand -- both natives of the Land and subject to the Earthblood.