Kevin's Watch

A bit late responding to this, but meh.

Roland of Gilead wrote:Murrin, it's interesting that you consider the flashback in Wizard and Glass the best writing, because I've heard many other readers say just the opposite. That this flashback is unnecessary and drastically slows down the story.

Well, I suppose for people who like King's style this wouldn't seem as good. I don't really like the rest of King's writing in tDT, however - I think that the Susan stuff was the only bit that was really well written. Plus, I think it's essential that characters have history, and that we know about it, especially if it's a main character. King lacks some of this, but the story about Roland and Susan is something, at least.

Murrin, I like to know a character's past, too, but I would disagree that King doesn't do this. There are detailed references to Eddie, Susannah and Jake's past. It's just so well-woven into the overall story, rather than done in a large chunk of flashback.

Roland is a very long-lived character. All of his past would be impossible to tell without resorting to a separate series of novels. I wouldn't mind seeing that myself . . . but I'll be realistic and be contented with the brilliant and mesmerizing tale King has chosen to write, with the occasional flashback to illumine how and why Roland is the man he has become.

I must say that I find Wizard and Glass to be the absolutely best book of the DT series to date, WoC included. I think to fully appreciate the scope of Roland's calling to the Tower, one has to see that which he willingly gave up, or destroyed.

Susan
His Mother
Alain
Cuthbert
Sheemie

These are all relationships and loves he tore asunder to get as close as he has. I believe, that like the world he lived in, he has moved on from these sorts of sacrifices. However, to fully appreciete the context of his tragedy, we needed that novel.

As far as slowing down the story, I couldn't (respectfully, thankee sai) disagree more. While certainly more character-driven, the book is pulse-pounding in the dissection of the mechanations of Flagg and the forces of the Random. The suspense just killed me.

The other thing I really liked was the build up of Jonas as a tough customer only to have Roland (..."Aurthu Eld himself come for me...") so quickly and utterly undo him. Also the flavor of the dialect was mystifying.

Long Days and Pleasant nights all!

Escellent points, Gunslinger. I agree that Wizard and Glass is the best of the series (so far). I enjoyed both the flashback tale and the contemporary one.

Roland's obsessive quest and how it takes everything away from him, leaving only the quest itself, is brilliantly portrayed. Then we see how a new set of companions impacts on Roland's past sacrifices and mistakes, and how they alter his future.

I do hope we get a little more detail on the demise of Roland's father, Steven. And isn't that a clever choice of name - as the character is, in a certain sense, Stephen (Steven) King's child?

Now I'll go back to tinkering on my time machine. I'm trying to jump to June 8.

Furls Fire wrote:Bump ... for A Gunslinger

Hey Dan?? Could you move this one and the Calla one to the Stephen King Forum in the library??

Please?

Roland of Gilead wrote:Escellent points, Gunslinger. I agree that Wizard and Glass is the best of the series (so far). I enjoyed both the flashback tale and the contemporary one.

Roland's obsessive quest and how it takes everything away from him, leaving only the quest itself, is brilliantly portrayed. Then we see how a new set of companions impacts on Roland's past sacrifices and mistakes, and how they alter his future.

I do hope we get a little more detail on the demise of Roland's father, Steven. And isn't that a clever choice of name - as the character is, in a certain sense, Stephen (Steven) King's child?

Now I'll go back to tinkering on my time machine. I'm trying to jump to June 8.

You speak true, Roland. Both about the Steven/Stephen dichotomy AND the need to make a time machine. Should you succeed, please forward all plans and specs.

The details of Jericho Hill (what happens to the horn?), the death of Steven, as well as more details about the deaths of Culthbert, Alain, and Sheemie I am sure will all be told... perhaps as the Ka-tet travels various levels of the Tower.

Roland, do you recall the TV show Twin Peaks? The Tower and the Black Lodge are similar in their infinitum and freakiness.

I will say, that only King's Tower and Donaldson have made me weep while reading. The death of Susan (and Roland's ignorance of it, prior to the event, having seen it in the grapefruit) was perhaps the saddest thing on printed page. I don't know how I'll react when one of our Ka-tet "rides the handsome". (doesn't king have the great ability to craft metaphor and simile?)

One other Q Roland,....have you read the tailisman? It is obvious, is it not that the Talisman is one of the wizard's balls?

Later!

Gunslinger - read Dan Simmons' Hyperion, specifically The Scholar's Tale. Also read Daniel Keyes' Flowers for Algernon. If those two don't make you cry, you've had an emotion bypass.

But I agree that King and Donaldson are powerful writers.

I never watched Twin Peaks, so can't comment on any resemblances to Dark Tower.

I agree regarding The Talisman and the Wizard's ball. I've always felt that The Talisman had the potential to be the best epic fantasy ever written. But the beautifully crafted journey across America, mirrored so cleverly in the Territories, needed to be so much longer. When the boys hop on the magical train and travel across half of America in a few hours, the novel's wonder was lessened for me. Had the book maintained the level of the first few hundred pages and kept up that sort of slow yet relentless pace - it might have been my all-time favorite fantasy. A flawed masterpiece is what we ended up with. I blame Peter Straub.

SPOILER ALERT




Another scene which made me weep -

Spoiler

Wolf's death.

That part made me sad too Roland.

Have you guys heard that they are going to be making a movie of The Talisman? Speilberg is producing it, they are having director problems tho. Here's a link with alot of info on the project.

www.liljas-library.com/talisman.html

I didn't look at your link yet, but I've heard that Spielberg obtained the rights back in the eighties and has been sitting on this project for many years.

Roland, I saw some news about that recently....but can't recall where or when. I think I heard it will be a miniseries, but probably will be omitting any tower references (dammit!).

My mum picked up The Drawing of the Three for me in a used book shop over the weekend, and I started it last night. At last, after three years, I can move on from The Gunslinger and find out whether BoB's enthusiasm is justified. So far so good. Roland

Spoiler

just lost his fingers and toe to that weird creature on the beach

but that's as far as I've got. It was 2.30am, after all - I could hardly read half the book

CovenantJr wrote:My mum picked up The Drawing of the Three for me in a used book shop over the weekend, and I started it last night. At last, after three years, I can move on from The Gunslinger and find out whether BoB's enthusiasm is justified. So far so good. Roland

Spoiler

just lost his fingers and toe to that weird creature on the beach

but that's as far as I've got. It was 2.30am, after all - I could hardly read half the book

Dad-da-Chum?

One, Murrin, it's interesting that you consider the flashback in Wizard and Glass the best writing, because I've heard many other readers say just the opposite. That this flashback is unnecessary and drastically slows down the story. I love it myself, but I don't think it's superior to the later Roland and company's story.

I found the flashback in W&G to be at the same level of writing as the rest of the series. What I find is the characters of the current quest are far more interesting. They have more checkered histories and subsequent flaws which are more interesting to read about. Alain, Cuthbert, and Susan are not nearly as deep and multi-layered and therefore for me not as interesting to read about - cry your pardon. All through the flashback I kept waiting for the action to return to the current ka-tet.

The background of Roland in W&G fleshes out his character but for one of the few times I felt myself impatient with the story and was very happy to get back to the present, so to speak. With the re-introduction of Callahan, a brilliant move, I was much more eager to read WoC. Always felt sorry for the priest since Salem's Lot!

I finished Wizard and Glass last Friday. I'm really digging the series. I've always been drawn to post-apocalyptic stuff. I'm reading the Stand, now. I wanted to learn more about Randall Flagg. Would Eyes of the Dragon be another book I Should read?

Byrn wrote:I finished Wizard and Glass last Friday. I'm really digging the series. I've always been drawn to post-apocalyptic stuff. I'm reading the Stand, now. I wanted to learn more about Randall Flagg. Would Eyes of the Dragon be another book I Should read?

It wouldn't hurt. it seems that Eyes of the Dragon occurs in the outer Baronies (Garland?) and does indirectly link to the DT series, if for no other reason than to give the reader insight as to the machinations of Flagg.

I would recommend highly reading The Talisman and Black House. Black House is very important. I would also highly recommend Insomnia...a very important linkage that explains the nature of the conflict between Roland and his adversaries!

A Gunslinger wrote:Dad-da-Chum?

*shudder* Don't...that thing was creepy. It was all just so sudden and meaningless; I suppose that was the point.

I'm interested to read that The Talisman is connected to DT, since i picked it up at random at a book fair last week, for 50p. I've read Insomnia more than once (but not quite twice, heh) so I'm curious as to the DT connections in there. I didn't really like Insomnia, it seemed a bit tedious...both times

CovenantJr wrote:

A Gunslinger wrote:Dad-da-Chum?

*shudder* Don't...that thing was creepy. It was all just so sudden and meaningless; I suppose that was the point.

I'm interested to read that The Talisman is connected to DT, since i picked it up at random at a book fair last week, for 50p. I've read Insomnia more than once (but not quite twice, heh) so I'm curious as to the DT connections in there. I didn't really like Insomnia, it seemed a bit tedious...both times

The WHOLE point of the book, If you reread it, is that Ralph and Lois MUST save a kid named Patrick Danville so that he can save the lives of 2 men who MUST make it "to the Dark Tower". Also the Crimson King does battle with Ralph, and the larger, more philoshical aspect of the Towers Purpose are explored. It can get tedious but if you ever suffered from insomnia....lets just say that that, too is the point.

Insomnia should have been about two hundred pages shorter, which would have solved the tedium problem.

But the Dark Tower passages alone are worth the price of admission.

Well, I finished The Gunslinger in just over 24 hours, and The Drawing of the Three in just under 48, but when I went back to the bookstore, they only had The Waste Lands left! Wizard and Glass had completely sold out!

Oh, waily waily!

Sum sui generis
Vs

W & G is the BEST! Brook no delay and find a copy somewhere!