The use of "Thank God"

[Kaydene]

If people who believe in a Christian God (or maybe one of the many variations thereof) would like to discuss why they, personally, thank a deity, I think we'd all welcome that.

I do, and I did.

Right.

My idea of God doesn't have him as being so narcissistic. So I don't think God did it for the thank-yous. And so I don't think he demands, expects, or appreciates any thanks from us.

I remember.

[Furls Fire]

I once told Furls that I went outside about midnight one night when it was pouring rain. It was a perfect storm for standing outside. Just a pair of shorts, it was warm, good wind, absolutely gorgeous in every possible way. I just lifted my face up to the falling rain, and laughed for the joy of the experience. Furls asked something like, "How can you not feel God at a time like that??" Those who do feel God at times like that may not understand how it's possible to not. But I don't. I simply feel the joy, without any hand behind the scenes.

Hmmm...if I recall correctly, I did not phrase that in a form of a question. I just simply said that when an event like that happens to me, I see God. Of course, I see God in everything around me. I also remember saying that I wished your beliefs mirrored mine because they bring me so much joy and, selfishly, I want everyone I love to feel that joy as well. But, you know what? You feel it, no matter what your belief is. I know you feel it. So, bah to my selfish wishes.

Okay, that said...

Rus, I'm glad you came back to the Close and the board. I don't like it when people go because they believe no one here wants them around or wants to hear what they have to say. It's the nature of free thinkers to debate and question, just because people are questioning you or are debating you doesn't mean they want to see you go. At least I don't.

And as far as "defending" my Christianity, I simply do not see the need too. I offer it up, for those who ask, or in threads like this. But, I certainly don't feel the need to defend my faith to any one. I'll try to explain it, sure. Defend it? Nah...what would be the point?

Oh, and as for the topic of the thread. I thank God everyday for my life, my husband, my children and the joy I find in Him and His Son. Now, more than ever since I have been to the brink and back again these past weeks.

[wayfriend]

I remember.

Um... I could interpret that reply as an insinuation that what I said implies I don't believe in a Christian God. If so, let me know, and I'll explain to you why you are wrong, right after I explain to you the fallacy of thinking you know more about what I believe than I do.

[Kaydene]

Ouch. "I remember" means all of that?

It must've been the smiley face.

I don't know what kind of a God you believe in. If you'd like to explain it, go for it! I just meant I read your post and remember what you said.

[dANdeLION]

For others (such as dANdeLION), when I say 'no Christians', I mean in the Close, where they might defend their faith and challenge false ideas about it. The Christians here either do not post here or do not trouble to defend their faith. Neither will I trouble any longer. For me, it's a pity, because as I said, in every other respect I find people here to be more intelligent than the average bear. But it is a gaping hole in intelligence if you do not take on the best arguments of your philosophical opponents.

Defense of one's faith does not necessarily mean one has to post here with their best, most logical, well thought out air-tight arguments concerning said faith. Sometimes it's a little more complicated than just trying to make sure you got your point across. In the end, actions speak louder than words, and words are pretty much all we have here, so I prefer to go where my actions can let God speak for me.

Kaydene, your avatar is lovely.

[CovenantJr]

I also remember saying that I wished your beliefs mirrored mine because they bring me so much joy and, selfishly, I want everyone I love to feel that joy as well. But, you know what? You feel it, no matter what your belief is. I know you feel it. So, bah to my selfish wishes.

I think this is an important point. We non-believers ( ) can feel just as much joy in that type of situation - but it's joy at the experience rather than the cause. Our joy isn't less, it's just differently directed.

[rdhopeca]

Stop losing sleep over it. We don't feel lost, or scared, or damned. We're ok. No solution is needed.

Agreed. You're a lot more worried about us then you need to be. But I will say I sort of miss having you around.

Thanks, Rob!

Like I said, no arguments, but I note that no one has responded to the only important point in my post, which was directed at the OP and responses to it, that the nature of the thread (minus my post and responses to it) is self-congratulatory. You guys don't have anyone to sharpen your swords against. (If I respond to anything else, you might again miss the point.)
It just proves to me the thesis of GKC's introduction to TEM - the special bias against Christianity. www.cse.dmu.ac.uk/~mward/gkc/books/everlasting_man.html

Regards,
R

Rus, I find nothing inherently wrong with one of us saying X, and the rest of us agreeing with it. Just because one of us says something does not mean we are necessarily cruising for an argument. I would be just as accepting of a post here about the good of God and having everyone chime in in agreement. Generally I have only posted here when either asked, or the nature of the post invited commentary.

I see nothing diminished here.

[SoulBiter]

Interesting... well I say 'thank God' many times but when I do I truly mean "Thank god. Its not just a phrase. However as I realized that I was using Gods name in vain when I would say OMG or Jesus as an exclamation and have tried to not do that. I have been fairly successful but I do slip now and again because its a habit that just pops out at times.

But as Furls said and I agree. I dont try to defend my Christianity because there really is no need. I believe and I have moments when I 'feel' the presence of God and thats enough for me. I do however try to plant 'seeds' that hopefully will grow... just as I plant seeds in my garden and I dont 'make' them come up as plants, I rely on God to do that for me. I do the same when I plant seeds of Christianity... I plant the seed, I try to nurture it at times but I cant 'make' the seed grow and to try to do so usually causes the seed to spoil.

[High Lord Tolkien]

However as I realized that I was using Gods name in vain when I would say OMG or Jesus as an exclamation

Is that what it means to "use the Lord's name in vain"?
I thought it was when you used it to invoke trust in one's self.
Like "God told me that it was ok for you/me to do it" type of thing.
Or "I swear to God" when in fact you know that you're lying.

I don't think those casual uses that you describe fall under the "vain" category.
I don't know for sure though.

[rdhopeca]

As I am married to a Catholic, out of respect for her beliefs, I do my level best never to say "Thank God" or "God bless" or anything like that. I don't want her to think I am making fun or not taking her beliefs seriously.

Now if I can just cut out the swearing...

[StevieG]

However as I realized that I was using Gods name in vain when I would say OMG or Jesus as an exclamation

Is that what it means to "use the Lord's name in vain"?

I always thought it was as SoulBiter says - but I'm not sure either. I was brought up in a Christian family, so I always feel a pang of guilt if I blaspheme, or use God's name in vain (in whatever capacity...) - so I try not to in public company. But it slips a lot, for some reason it's part of my vocabulary.

[Fist and Faith]

Tracie, sorry if I misrepresented you. I don't make the slightest claim to have been quoting you. I just meant to say it's often difficult for one side of this issue to understand how the other side can see it any other way.

But it is a gaping hole in intelligence if you do not take on the best arguments of your philosophical opponents.

I quite agree. Sure, there is something to be said for being with others who agree with us, and enjoying the company of those of similar thoughts and beliefs. That's what church is, eh? I've never heard of a church/synagogue/mosque/ashram that has atheists, or adherents of another belief system, come in and argue against the place's beliefs, or for their own beliefs. Those who go to that church are there to celebrate a shared faith.

The same can happen here. Since the Close is not centered on any one system, any number of people with similar beliefs can gather and celebrate whatever it is they share. Such a thing is not necessarily bad. It is not necessarily a self-congratulatory club, rus. Why should those of us who believe similar things not have the same opportunity to gather and enjoy the company of those who agree with us, the way you do when you go to church? In fact, there's nothing wrong with always and only doing that, if that's what anyone wants to do.

Personally, I don't want nothing but that. I don't much post unless there's someone in the opposite corner. And this forum has sometimes been great for that. There's certainly something to be gained from debating with those who do not believe the same things. First of all, it's just plain fun! Aside from that, one big benefit I've gotten from it is that it makes me truly consider what it is I believe. (Or don't. ) I've sometimes thought I had a good handle on what I thought or believed. But, when I tried to write it down, I realized I had inconsistencies. So great, I've cleared some things up.

Debating these things does, however, lead to problems. One of the biggest we've run across here is when Person A cannot accept when Person B is not convinced by A's arguments. Then we see the anger and insults come out. Posts that do not say anything other than, "You're ignorant." "You're stupid." "You're just being stubborn." Etc. No, none of the above. Maybe the real problem is that A or B cannot see outside his/her mindset enough to see that other views are possible. Or maybe A is not as logical as s/he suspects. Or who knows what else. The point is, if the only outcome A can accept is for B (and C, D, E, F, G...) to see it A's way, then A shouldn't be doing this. It's not going to happen. At least not very often.

[CovenantJr]

However as I realized that I was using Gods name in vain when I would say OMG or Jesus as an exclamation

Is that what it means to "use the Lord's name in vain"?

I always thought it was as SoulBiter says

As did I. That's what I was taught when I moved in Church of England circles as a child. *shrug*

[Kaydene]

Kaydene, your avatar is lovely.

Thank you for noticing.

[SoulBiter]

However as I realized that I was using Gods name in vain when I would say OMG or Jesus as an exclamation

Is that what it means to "use the Lord's name in vain"?
I thought it was when you used it to invoke trust in one's self.
Like "God told me that it was ok for you/me to do it" type of thing.
Or "I swear to God" when in fact you know that you're lying.

I don't think those casual uses that you describe fall under the "vain" category.
I don't know for sure though.

My understanding is when you use the name of the Lord without meaning or real significance. So to say "God bless you' after someone sneezes, when you truly dont mean 'God Bless you'. Or to say 'Oh my God' or 'Jesus' as a exclamation of surprise or even disgust in something. Or to say G__Damnit...... you truly dont mean to ask God to damn something, you are just using his name as an exclamation. Although I would think to ask God to damn something is just as bad and could be considered in the same context.

[wayfriend]

Yes, casually throwing out God's name in an exclamation is an "in vain" thing. "In vain" means "without purpose" -- in this case, without really meaning those words literally. So it's potentially in vain whether it be "Thank God" or a "God damn" or a "Bloody mess" or a "Zounds".

(And are you successfully steering clear when you say "Gosh Darn" or "Cripes"? I think not.)

If you're not particularly worried about that sin, you could chalk it up to being just an expression people use. Which is what I do. It is rather ingrained in our culture to use those phrases without meaning them. People, Christians included, usually use these expressions because they pick them up from our culture, not considering whether or not it breaks a commandment.

[SoulBiter]

Yes, casually throwing out God's name in an exclamation is an "in vain" thing. "In vain" means "without purpose" -- in this case, without really meaning those words literally. So it's potentially in vain whether it be "Thank God" or a "God damn" or a "Bloody mess" or a "Zounds".

(And are you successfully steering clear when you say "Gosh Darn" or "Cripes"? I think not.)

If you're not particularly worried about that sin, you could chalk it up to being just an expression people use. Which is what I do. It is rather ingrained in our culture to use those phrases without meaning them. People, Christians included, usually use these expressions because they pick them up from our culture, not considering whether or not it breaks a commandment.

I dont think you can.... its one thing to do it in ignorance and quite another to continue it when you know its wrong. As a Christ follower you should 'want' to do the right thing, so once its pointed out as wrong and if you really believe its wrong then you cant really just rationalize it away.

[wayfriend]

I dont think you can.... its one thing to do it in ignorance and quite another to continue it when you know its wrong. As a Christ follower you should 'want' to do the right thing, so once its pointed out as wrong and if you really believe its wrong then you cant really just rationalize it away.

I'm afraid that you'll find that I'm one of those pick-and-choose Catholics. Amongst my indiscretions which will surely send me to hell according to some, I take the Lord's name in vain, eat meat on Friday, and pretty much don't make much effort to keep the Sabbath holy - if the lawn needs mowing, it gets mowed on Sunday if I didn't do it on Saturday.

[Furls Fire]

Tracie, sorry if I misrepresented you. I don't make the slightest claim to have been quoting you. I just meant to say it's often difficult for one side of this issue to understand how the other side can see it any other way.

No worries. I just don't pose such questions, I make observations.

As far as taking the Lord's name in vain. I personally believe that using His name to vent frustration, or to throw it around in a casual manner is taking His name in vain. No cuss is worse to me than "gd". I cringe when someone says it. I would rather hear the f-word thrown around than "gd". The same holds true when someone exclaims His Son's name as a cuss.

I invoke God's name when I am speaking to Him or of Him.

[aliantha]

WF: I wonder how many people nowadays would even make the connection between "zounds!" and "God's wounds". I didn't make it myself until I read Shakespeare in high school...

Along with what Tracie said about invoking God -- I think, as a practical matter, that's the real danger for believers who casually throw his name around. God is, of course, watching all the time, etc., but saying his name is invoking him, regardless of your intention at the time -- and cursing may not be a part of your behavior that you want him to pay special attention to.