Kevin's Watch

Loremaster wrote:I'd rather be Holt.

you must have some kind of control-freak streak in ya, Lore!

Elfgirl wrote:

Loremaster wrote:I'd rather be Holt.

you must have some kind of control-freak streak in ya, Lore!

And who's the mod here?

i didnt say i want to be like nick, just that im most like him. i think deep down most blokes are, we just evolve past where nick got to.

Tazzman wrote:i didnt say i want to be like nick, just that im most like him.

Exactly. I detested Nick for most of the series.

Hmmm, then there's a lot of blokes here with self-loathing issues...

Me, I adored Nick. I'm a Liete Coreggio. Even after all the nastiness, I still ached for him and the way he'd been duped by Sorus and Morn. He was too pretty to die.

Holt was too rich and powerful to die!

Loremaster wrote:Holt was too rich and powerful to die!

and therein lies the irony - not with all his power and money could he be saved....

Good point. You earn some wgds for clever posting.

Nick Dies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorus wrote:

Warmark Troy wrote:The question really is would ytou rather be a scumbag or a victim. There are few people who have principles who are not being trampled over constantly.

True... But there are a lot of gray areas. That (for me, anyway) is a large part of what made it such a fascinating series.

That is exactly what I often said about the books, and I have discussed with Loremaster before... these aren't simple books, there is no true "good" or "evil"... who you think is evil and who you think is good depends wholly on your point of view.

i didnt say i want to be like nick, just that im most like him. i think deep down most blokes are, we just evolve past where nick got to.

What? i really don't get your logic there... most guys are like Nick deep down? I'm not, and I can think of many others that's aren't as well... and if we've "evolved" past Nick, that your statement is still false... because we're no longer that person deep down.

I don't mean to offend, I just felt that post was highly illogical.

Nick is like a spoilt 10 year old that happened to get big and powerful enough to be able to hurt people for real, unlike most 10 year olds.
i, unfortunately see more of myself in nick than anybody else because i was once a spoilt 10 year old. look at nicks past( btw i havnt finished all the books yet, so maybe there are some more revalations) there was nothing major that turned him into a complete A-hole. a girl screwed him once-big deal!! he just never grew up. maybe hes got some sort of personality dissorder but(and i may be wrong) isnt a personality dissorder kind of defined by not growing up emotionally and mentally?

if you say your not like him then i wont argue.

EDIT: what im getting at is nick would have been the guy i would have wanted to be when i was 10. now im 22 i dont but i still see more of myself in him than anyone else. im nothing like any of the other major characters. if i made the assumption that other blokes feel the same and im wrong then i apologise. btw i cant really see how you can question the logic of my post BEFORE youve asked me to explain myself. complain about my logic now

Tazzman wrote:Nick is like a spoilt 10 year old that happened to get big and powerful enough to be able to hurt people for real, unlike most 10 year olds.
i, unfortunately see more of myself in nick than anybody else because i was once a spoilt 10 year old. look at nicks past( btw i havnt finished all the books yet, so maybe there are some more revalations) there was nothing major that turned him into a complete A-hole. a girl screwed him once-big deal!! he just never grew up. maybe hes got some sort of personality dissorder but(and i may be wrong) isnt a personality dissorder kind of defined by not growing up emotionally and mentally?

if you say your not like him then i wont argue.

EDIT: what im getting at is nick would have been the guy i would have wanted to be when i was 10. now im 22 i dont but i still see more of myself in him than anyone else. im nothing like any of the other major characters. if i made the assumption that other blokes feel the same and im wrong then i apologise. btw i cant really see how you can question the logic of my post BEFORE youve asked me to explain myself. complain about my logic now

Loremaster, do you want to take this one, or should I?

given that i was talking to you mate i would suggest you go!
or maybe you just wanna come cross as a smug prat!!?

Loremaster is more logical than me, and much more intelligent... I have no problems conceding that fact, he'd probably be better at putting eloquence of words together...

But that's besides the point, I did a git thing there... if Loremaster reads that, he might be compelled to post, and I'd be putting him in the middle... if he wants to dispute your arguments fairly, he is of course able to do so on his own terms; and without seeming like he is siding with anyone. It was wrong.


Anyways, to answer you, I disagree with the logic of your post:

i think deep down most blokes are, we just evolve past where nick got to.

If we are like Nick deep down, by your terms, then we are like Nick... and if, as you have stated, we are like Nick deep down but have evolved past the point where Nick got to, then we are not Nick; for we have surpassed him; therefore one halve of your argument contridicts the other half, one cannot be like Nick and be unlike him at the same time.

Also, Nick was a killer, morally deprived and selfish, ruthless and damaged man... to say that "most men are like him deep down" is a hasty and unthought though comment at best.

I think that when you say "most guys" are like Nick, you mean yourself... now I don't mean to catagorize you, hell, you said it yourself; But I think you're generalizing from your relation to Nick and making it a "most men are like it deep down" issue. This is also illogical at best; making your own feelings towards a character a thing that everyone might indeed feel.

dont but i still see more of myself in him than anyone else. im nothing like any of the other major characters. if i made the assumption that other blokes feel the same and im wrong then i apologise.

Thankyou for conceding that you might indeed be wrong; and also for apologising. I will in turn admit that I was wrong for not replying to your post in a respectful manner. I'm sorry.

- Revan.

<sob>

"Can you feel the love tonight......"

Cail wrote:<sob>

"Can you feel the love tonight......"

*Dances in the arms of Cail, while singing*

"The peace the evening brings
The world, for once, in perfect harmony
With all its living things..."

no worries mate, ugh im tired and while i did think you were a little rude i shoulda pm'd you rather than posting that. oh well.

i was probably a little hasty in my generalisation and as you pointed out i conceded that.

i noticed you want to be angus!!! and your paying ME out.
(although to be fair you didnt say you were like angus)

Nick Succorso.. of course!

Revan and Tazzman - thanks for settling it all. I can see both your points. I have to add my thoughts on the subject. When Tazz states there's a bit of 'Nick deep down', perhaps what he means is that there's a bit of something that deep down we share with Nick. Perhaps the selfish, self-aggrandizing, superficial part. Also, a part that wants revenge. But let's not make an important error - Nick was bad or evil. He sold Morn to the Amnion, and as Vector said, the crew had done some bad things because of him. I don't think any of us would go that far. I can fairly state that yes we are all like him but we really aren't.
Great points, guys.