The Linden Avery Anti-Fan Club?

Post by **Revan** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 3:55 pm

LOL! I don't think Fangthane The Render made any sounds.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:12 pm

Darth Revan wrote:Why not! Would you rather him be a sad loser whom the closet he got to getting laid in 11 years was rapping someone.

I don't have a problem with TC being happy, I have a problem with him finding solace in the arms of a whiny, self-absorbed harridan, simply because she happens to pitch up on his doorstep

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Thu Dec 11, 2003 5:58 pm

CovenantJr wrote:
Darth Revan wrote:Why not! Would you rather him be a sad loser whom the closet he got to getting laid in 11 years was rapping someone.
I don't have a problem with TC being happy, I have a problem with him finding solace in the arms of a whiny, self-absorbed harridan, simply because she happens to pitch up on his doorstep

ROFLMAO

DukkhaWaynhim

Post by **Dragonlily** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:48 am

CovenantJr wrote:I don't have a problem with TC being happy, I have a problem with him finding solace in the arms of a whiny, self-absorbed harridan, simply because she happens to pitch up on his doorstep

She's a determined, courageous, crusading woman who doesn't make Covenant look like even more of a grump by comparison with her.

Post by **Worm of Despite** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:33 am

What's with you people? I guess I'm either blind to it or just not a normal person like the rest of y'all, cause Linden and Covenant NEVER annoyed or offended me. The only time TC made me wince was when he said something in LFB. But not because it offended me--it was because I knew the people of the Land would react badly to his statement; kinda like one of those "oh man, they're really gonna give it to him!"

Really, I don't see what was so annoying about them, unless someone points the annoying moments to me. And I wonder if SRD intended for Linden and TC to annoy the common reader.

Honestly, what's most annoying is people ragging on Linden. Let's make a thread about whether or not Watch member A or B is annoying or not and then dissect their nuances and ridicule them. Come on, everybody!

Yeah, I know she is a book character, but I’ve never seen a protagonist treated so unfavorably since Jar Jar Binks. And Linden is not a Jar Jar Binks, damn it. I knew you were about to say that. Yeah, you, right there.

Furls Fire wrote:Maybe SRD will find a way for them to be together in the Last Chrons. The Mega Happy Ending would be wonderful

"Too easy", as TC would say.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:46 am

I think that if you look at the all the posts in depth most of us are actually supporting Linden. Yes some of us, including myself in my 1st read the Chrons some 20 years ago or so, were spoiled brats wanting only TC and being horrified by the new condition of the Land. Then saying: who is this person? What is she doing here? OMG why do we have to suffer yet another person from our world with even worse hangups!?

Times have changed and it may be easier, nowadays, to understand bold professional women--but given the timeline when SRD wrote these books he really was slightly ahead of his time. At the time these books were written we could easily imagine women as strong as LA but the reality really didn't sink in until later-same with TC we didn't necsesarily understand the issues of such a diseased outcast in a time before AIDs, etc...until we read this stuff...we were spoiled and somehow oddly innocent...SRD changed our lives violently with the truth as we did not, yet, know it. We hardly even considered euthanasia as an option...

Post by **Landwaster** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 4:47 am

Never mind the posts, the poll clearly shows that most support Linden.

Post by **danlo** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:08 am

No I'm guilty of it too...historically most the the topics that deal with LA in Watch history---even dating back to the old board--have this "anti" ring in their titles--even including my topic at the Hangar titled, 'U Have 2 Talk about Linden in This Deep Dark Topic,' well I apologize and perhaps we should someday sound start a topic called: Let's Praise Linden A!

With the title of this topic, and the other reactions 2 LA on this 'new board', before this topic, I can certianly see where Foul is coming from...

It can wear a little...

Post by **Landwaster** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:15 am

Oh yeah, I'm guilty of it. I was mighty unimpressed with her character in many facets. Yep it can wear thin, but it also makes for good conversation material!

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 5:40 am

I wasn't really playing Despiser's advocate when I started this thread. And I didn't realize just how many incarnations of this thread there were. But, I think it has been interesting, and it was a good way for me to get to know quite a few Watchers in the process.

I, too, initially disliked Linden Avery [again, I was in Junior High, so not quite mature enough to get a lot of the deeper meanings--heck, I sped-read through the middle chapters of the One Tree because I was so sick of them being on that darn stoneship--no offense, Dromond

] But now having read and reread both Chronicles at least twice, the only character that I still truly dislike is Findail... for EarthPower incarnate, he is such an Eeyore!

But anyway, Linden Avery was an integral part to the Second Chronicles for many reasons, the most mundane of which is that every sequel needs a newbie character to give the author a chance to start over with everything. The cleverest reason is that someone needed to carry the torch, because SRD knew that TC needed to die so he could 'rise again'... which brings e to a side bar question. Has there been a thread about religion here?

The only reason I mention it is that many years back I made note that on the single occasion I visited it, the local Christian bookstore only had two representatives from the fantasy genre within its walls: The Chronicles of Narnia, and the FCTC... Coincidence? Overanalysis? One too many hits with a snake?

DukkhaWaynhim

Post by **Dragonlily** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:56 am

I believe there are some religion discussion threads in the Multifarium under General Discussion.

Post by **CovenantJr** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:33 am

I realise and whole-heartedly accept that Linden is an integral part of the Second Chronicles, and in all honesty I wouldn't have it any other way. Just having TC wandering around again would have been a tedious repetition of the First Chronicles, and would also have diminished my opinion of SRD as an author of integrity. However, that doesn't mean I have to like Linden. She had to be the way she was in order to achieve what she did, but I still detest her as a personality, not as a character - if you see what I mean... For example, I dislike LF, but welcome him as a character. Throughout the course of LFB, I had a strong dislike of TC; in fact, I think it wasn't until TPTP that I realised I had gradually come to understand and accept him, even respect him. But Linden never really redeemed herself in my eyes. She performed worthy acts, but I never found myself warming to her, certainly not respecting her, and indeed never truly understanding her. Perhaps the latter point is the reason I still dislike her to this day; perhaps I see something in TC that I identify with. Perhaps I can comprehend his bitterness, his self-doubt, particularly his constant search for enough shreds of inner strength and resolve to continue in the face of seemingly insurmountable hardship, both external and within himself. But Linden makes no sense to me. Perhaps that says more about my relative youth than about Linden herself.

Post by **DukkhaWaynhim** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:42 pm

Well said, CovenantJr, and good distinction between liking the character and appreciating what they bring to the story.

DukkhaWaynhim

Post by **Dromond** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:44 pm

I've always admired Linden and have stood up for her here since joining Kevinswatch. I guess her pain came through more than her 'whining' for me. The end of WGW had me in tears the first time I read it and damn near each time since.

None taken, DukkaWaynhim.

Post by **amanibhavam** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 7:55 pm

Very well put. Only Linden could accomplish what she accomplished. But if I had to spend a day with her I think I would scream in the end.

Post by **kastenessen** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:37 am

Well, nobody's perfect. I have always liked Linden. She fought with her inner demons in the second chrons as did TC in the first. Usually did good things come out of it but never the easy way out. (2nd chrons)

The thing I actually like the most with SRD's writing is that he never stops surprising you with twists and turns in the story and most of all in charachterisation. The heroes (or anti-heroes) are so fully written that you completely becomes absorbed in their thinking and therefore understands their actions. I mean TC, Linden, Terisa Morgan, Morn Hyland, Axbrewder...their actions are usually fully understandable and when they are not that is believable too.

So after the first chrons has SRD used women as "first heroes". (OK, not Axbrewder) I wonder, some great artists, male artists, often uses women to tell their story through. The swedish film-director Ingmar Bergman for example made his career by using women in lead roles and exploring their psyches. Great movies they are from -57 and forth...

____
kast

KaosArcana · Post by **KaosArcana** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:41 pm

Joy:

Other people in the Land had Linden's healing instincts, but even Mhoram never tried to get inside Covenant to try to heal his mind. For certain Elena would have tried if she could have, she had no qualms about meddling in private things when she felt the need. I think that says Linden was exceptional.

I seem to recall that Elena tried to pull Covenant into a Lord mind-meld
at one point and that he refused because she would have found out
about his plan to sucker her into taking his role in the Land's fate.

I'm one of the "don't care for Linden" people myself.

I found myself much more closely identified with Covenant than I did
with her, and all the time spent from her viewpoint was a time I would
have enjoyed better if I could have seen things through Covenant's
eyes.

Also, she just screams "Mary Sue" to me: a beautiful woman who can
do more with the health sense than we ever saw the people of the Land
do when they had the power, who can snatch the power from Covenant
whenever she wants in White Gold Wielder...

Post by **kevinswatch** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 8:26 am

Yeah, Covenant deserves better then Linden.

Spoiler

It'd be hilarious if Covenant asked for his ring back at some time in the new series. Sort of like, "Um, yeah, can I have my ring back? That wasn't meant for you. You kinda stole it after I, you know, died and all."

-jay

Post by **Dragonlily** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:51 am

Somebody a while back, I think it was Amani, described Covenant as "stubbornly loyal even to his mistakes." I don't think he considered Linden a mistake, though. He thought she was something good he had no right to.

Post by **Worm of Despite** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:40 pm

kevinswatch wrote:Yeah, Covenant deserves better then Linden.

Spoiler
It'd be hilarious if Covenant asked for his ring back at some time in the new series. Sort of like, "Um, yeah, can I have my ring back? That wasn't meant for you. You kinda stole it after I, you know, died and all."
-jay

Bah, by the end of WGW, Covenant loved Linden and she loved him. To put it lightly, it's totally out of character for him to accuse her of "stealing" his ring--unless, that is, TC becomes LF in the Final Chronicles. It's all personal opinion if you found Linden annoying, but if you just didn't want her character in the book--period--then, well, I guess that's your opinion too. But those who hold those opinions could try for once--just once maybe--to give a solid reason why. Not too much to ask.

Kevin's Watch

Kevin's Watch

The Linden Avery Anti-Fan Club?

Linden Avery---Fair or Foul?