Kevin's Watch

Hey Ryzel. Nice to see you around.

--A

It has been quite a while since the last time I was here I see, but I always return here when I consider re-reading any of Donaldson's work.

You should visit whether or not you are re-reading. It's not like there aren't other topics to discuss.

--A

Agreed!

(Like I do, right, Av? )

Cambo wrote:

Avatar wrote:Violence in a book is well...just fictional. People getting upset by or about it never really made sense to me.

Same as the Lena rape scene in LFB...it's barely even there, but there are people who apparently can't get past it, or who got past it, but really struggled to do so.

--A

There have been many events in fictional stories that upset me more than, say, the Titanic disaster. Hell, there are historical atrocities that have only really hit home emotionally when presented to me in narrative form- the Holocaust, for example, never packed so much punch as when I watched Schindler's List for the first time. Saving Private Ryan communicated to me the horror of the Normandy beach front better than any history book I've read.

Fictional violence is upsetting to me, and I think Donaldson intends it to be. I'm not saying I had some kind of trauma trigger, or that I was sobbing as I read, the way I would if I witnesses a similar scene in real life. But those scenes sure as hell have an impact. I think the series would mean less to me without that. A lot less, in fact.

Good points. If the violence isn't disturbing, then the writer didn't do his job ... not unless his point is to show us how we can become desensitized to violence, which certainly wasn't the point SRD was trying to make.

Av makes the point that our own lives can make us desensitized to violence, which is true, but it can go the opposite direction, too. At 14, I hadn't experienced enough or matured enough to be properly horrified by Lena's rape. It didn't seem real because it was so different from my reality. Now I know children who have been raped (the guy is in jail), and I know the long lasting pain it can cause, so that it's no longer quite so fictional for me.

I know other readers of the Gap who had to put it down because it reminded them too much of people they used to know and love. It was too painful to keep reading.

Well stated, Z. My ex, who had been molested as a child, wanted nothing to do with Donaldson as about every book I mentioned had rape in it. Despite how I mentioned that it had a purpose and wasn't gratuitous, she still had no desire to even read about the subject.

Damn good point Z.

--A

blossom wrote:Hi, everyone. Thanks for welcoming me and for listening to my senile ravings

Trouble is, after The Gap, what can I read now? I can't find anything that measures up.

Yes! I too would appreciate any recommendations for a Gap-lover. I don't expect anything to stand up to these books, but am hopeful I can find something close, with that epic stakes-raising, tension-ratcheting quality.

Tough one. Specifically Sci-Fi? MAybe Hamilton's Night's Dawn books? (Even if there is one plot point I really don't like, it's pretty epic.)

I like Anderson's Saga of Seven Suns too. Equally epic.

--A

Not necessarily looking exclusively sci-fi at all, but I do appreciate your recommendations. I'll look into those.

Malazan (Steven Erikson). It bakes fantasy, sf, and philosophy together into one bloody delicious, layered cake. That's anything and everything I've found comparable to SRD's level since Gap and TCTC.

I have other grit-sff favorites such as Joe Abercrombie, Mark Lawrence, Scott Lynch, the obvious GRRM, Mieville, but none has climbed so high towards the peak of epicness.

Frostheart Grueburn wrote:Malazan (Steven Erikson).

I second that recommendation.

Thanks for the recommendations!

Within the realm of sci fi I recommend passage at arms by glen cook. Its about an embedded journalist on a specialized stealth ship employed in a war against aliens. Its tension mirrors that of das boot, a film about a submarine crew in Wwii. There isnt as much at stake for the human race in the book (its a serious conflict but they're not going to be as impactful as the characters of the gap books on the survival of the human race) but as for the fate of the crew, there's high risk.

Malazan is awesome, although I wouldn't call it sci-fi at all, (although I see why people could).

Sticking to sci-fi, I assume there is no need to recommend the (original) Dune series?

Oh, Iain M Banks' Culture books are great, but I don't really think of them as a "series."

Asimov's Robots series is good, and Patrick Tilley's Amtrak Wars books are some of my personal favourites.

--A

Vraith wrote:Having recently re-read the Gap...current opinion, related to question on other series:
There are a number of series as good or better than the Gap, I think, in a holistic way. [It's a tight group, though.]
But I can't think of any off the top of my head that is the equal of the Gap in the personal/character intensity. Been thinking since the question was first asked, and I just can't bring to mind any apple/apple comparison.
What makes it special also seems to make it unique.
Take Dune...depending on who you talk to, what makes it special is in his ideas on ecologies [or economies, or gov't/politics, or human nature/potential, etc....], but none of those are unique. Other works did them, before and after he did. Some did it very well...not quite as good as Dune [nothing is]...but competitive in the same game.
Very few sf series really centralize characters as the Gap does, and I don't recall any that function with anything remotely like the same depth, importance, and energy.
If some like series exists [it might, and I jsut haven't found it...no one but Av can read EVERYTHING] I'd love to know about it.

Anyway, some good suggestions above.
Recently read Wolfe's Solar Cycle...I'd read the first 2 books long ago, finally went back and did most of the rest...haven't read the "short sun" books yet. Quite liked it.

And I'm always recommending the "Radix" tetrad. It is criminal that more people haven't. Absolutely everyone should read the first book at least.

Really great points Vraith. I think sci fi does tend to be driven more by story and world and ideas than by character. A book that at least has a strong character focus is Dan Simmons' Hyperion. But due to its "Canterbury Tales in space" format, we don't see development and interaction of the characters in anywhere close to the degree of the Gap.

I wish I could read everything. Usually I pay more attention to world building than characterisation. The Gap is probably one of the only series where the world is almost unimportant to me.

--A

Cambo wrote:But due to its "Canterbury Tales in space" format, we don't see development and interaction of the characters in anywhere close to the degree of the Gap.

Exactly. The individuals tales are fairly intense/high stakes. But they aren't enmeshed with each other in the same way.
But those are good recommendations for whoever it was who asked [heh...apparently I'm too lazy to scroll up...]
I like Simmons.

Avatar wrote:I wish I could read everything. Usually I pay more attention to world building than characterisation. The Gap is probably one of the only series where the world is almost unimportant to me.

--A

I find the world fascinating. Second to the characters, but still. How did they reach that level of cohesion when they clearly still have so many issues?