Kevin's Watch

Romeo wrote:I'm not ticked off about someone buying it. My peeve is that someone is SELLING it before the official release date.

I apologize if I made anyone feel guilty about wanting to bid on it. And I *certainly* would not hold any ill will toward the person who wins the auction.

I totally agree with Romeo. Buying it isn't the problem. It's selling it that's the problem. I mean, sure, most of us want the hardcover anyway, so it's not like hypothetically purchasing an ARC would actually change the author's income on the book. The problem is that he's not making any money off the ARC.

Publishers send out free copies for publicity purposes--reviews, promotions, to get buzz going among booksellers, that sort of thing. Passing around an ARC amongst yr friends & relations for free does not defeat the purpose of this "buzz" creation process--it's all word of mouth, so loan away. But when you sell an ARC, you're cheating the author whether or not you sell it to someone who's going to buy the actual book.

If you sell an ARC, you're making money at the publisher's expense, never mind the author's. ARC's are surprisingly expensive to produce, because of limited print runs and the demand for relatively high production values among the big review outlets; their per unit cost to the publisher is generally higher than the actual book's. But their value as a promotional tool is high enough that it's worth it. If you sell an ARC, you're basically taking it out of circulation as a free promotional tool and turning it into a commodity--but the people who produce that commodity never see the profit for it.

I just realized that I am ranting! Like I said, I agree with Romeo--I don't blame anyone for buying them. I just don't like people who sell them.

Now, everyone gets three guesses as to what I do for a living.

A GENTLE REMINDER:

I haven't read this whole thread but keep this in mind for all of you who want to get your hands on this "unofficial" copy: You may well be stealing from the hand that feeds you! Reading this will not only spoil the official, released book that has been approved by SRD and the publisher, but you may well be cheating Mr. Donaldson out of well-deserved royalties from book sales!

Remember that here at the Watch, we try to keep the integrity of its members high. Reading this copy is tantamount to stealing.

If I had the chance to read it, would I? No. I have my copy reserved and I am savorying the wait until it is released. That is half the fun!

I must respectfully disagree that 'reading this copy (ARC) is tantamount to stealing'.

Now ... It WOULD be stealing if I did not purchase a legitimate copy at release time (which I have stated previously that I would, and I meant it). All I'm doing is time-shifting my reading experience, and letting someone profit from my desire to do so. That's my choice though, and the bargain is well worth it to me.

I also WANT to see and have the ARC copy as WELL. I enjoy seeing the 'master at work' and the imperfections before the fully-produced version. Again, my choice to read the early version.

For the record: ripping off my favorite author of all time is certainly *not* my style. Especially when I have to look him in the eye in a week at Elohimfest. If I thought that was what I was doing, I wouldn't do it. I'll tell it to The Man Himself face to face with a clear conscience.

I do appreciate, however, the spirit of your post of keeping Watchers an honest bunch.

markjeffrey wrote:A beggar just handed me this note:

'A man from our world has the opportunity to purchase an early proof release of a book about another world. The man will also buy a copy of the book when it is released in the fall. Does the man purchase the early proof book and read it? This is the fundamental question of ethics."


Ethics! I snorted.

The publisher throws these early books out there as a loss-leader to build an audience for the upcoming book. They know they are partially cannibalizing future sales, but they are betting on the come: the reader will rave about it to their friends, which will result in a chain reaction of good word of mouth resulting in MUCH more sales. Books are largely sold on word of mouth. And i intend to be a Big Mouth about this. And I predict a MONSTER best-seller in any event.

So who loses?
Me: No way. I get a new hit of TC.
Donaldson: No. I'm buying a copy anyway when released. He gets his dollar from me. And besides, I've bought the old series several times over to replace worn / lost copies, and gotten many friends to buy. I've been a good $ supporter of SRD, very happily so, and will continue to be.
The Publisher. No. For same reasons above.
The Dude Selling It To Me: Of course not. He's making bank. I'm allowing him to gouge me. But to me, it's still a deal.

markjeffrey wrote:Here's another thought for you:

If the publisher sees the ridiculous run-up of price of these early copies, they may well come to appreciate how amazing these books are -- and grok just what kind of demand there IS for Donaldson -- resulting in a greater press run and committment to a marketing effort than they may be planning on now.

Same goes for the audience: people see these books climbing up in price and go, What is this? It MUST be killer. Look what people are willing to pay!!!

It may be some of the best underground marketing afoot for Runes at the moment -- which is exactly what these early copies in circulation were intended to achieve.

LOL on the ethics letter!

I couldn't agree with you more mark. You are totally and competely right! Excellent posts!

caamora wrote:A GENTLE REMINDER:

I haven't read this whole thread but keep this in mind for all of you who want to get your hands on this "unofficial" copy: You may well be stealing from the hand that feeds you! Reading this will not only spoil the official, released book that has been approved by SRD and the publisher, but you may well be cheating Mr. Donaldson out of well-deserved royalties from book sales!

Remember that here at the Watch, we try to keep the integrity of its members high. Reading this copy is tantamount to stealing.

If I had the chance to read it, would I? No. I have my copy reserved and I am savorying the wait until it is released. That is half the fun!

Oh come on! Stealing? How do you figure that? and "you may well be cheating Mr. Donaldson out of well-deserved royalties from book sales!" Didn't you read markjeffrey's posts?

markjeffrey wrote:I must respectfully disagree that 'reading this copy (ARC) is tantamount to stealing'.

Now ... It WOULD be stealing if I did not purchase a legitimate copy at release time (which I have stated previously that I would, and I meant it). All I'm doing is time-shifting my reading experience, and letting someone profit from my desire to do so. That's my choice though, and the bargain is well worth it to me.

I also WANT to see and have the ARC copy as WELL. I enjoy seeing the 'master at work' and the imperfections before the fully-produced version. Again, my choice to read the early version.

For the record: ripping off my favorite author of all time is certainly *not* my style. Especially when I have to look him in the eye in a week at Elohimfest. If I thought that was what I was doing, I wouldn't do it. I'll tell it to The Man Himself face to face with a clear conscience.

I do appreciate, however, the spirit of your post of keeping Watchers an honest bunch.

.

Fair play to ya mate. CAn you tell me what happens... I mean if someone posted spoilers for everyone to see... that would be nasty... but do you reckon you could pm me about what happens... I need to know... I'm too impatient...

A Gunslinger wrote:Dick Cheney has a special seat right next to Satan awaiting him.

You know, you can spout off all the liberal crap you want in Think Tank; but I really prefer not to see it here. By the way, I'd really like to know how you found that particular 'fact' out. Seems to me only somebody who knows Satan personally could know that......

Mellow out people please...

markjeffrey wrote: So who loses?
Me: No way. I get a new hit of TC.
Donaldson: No. I'm buying a copy anyway when released. He gets his dollar from me. And besides, I've bought the old series several times over to replace worn / lost copies, and gotten many friends to buy. I've been a good $ supporter of SRD, very happily so, and will continue to be.
The Publisher. No. For same reasons above.
The Dude Selling It To Me: Of course not. He's making bank. I'm allowing him to gouge me. But to me, it's still a deal.

One more thing. We're talking about 2 copies of the book here. The extra 3 were apparently a mistake by the 2nd seller, who promptly removed 2 of the auctions. Presumably he only has the one book. Either way, what is 2 or 4 books going to hurt in future sales of the official realeased books? Nothing, that's what. Still, there is the question of ethics of those in the industry; they should do nothing to cut the legs off the horse they're riding. And if they have to justify their actions like we're doing here, then chances are it's immoral.

danlo wrote:Mellow out people please...

By 'people', I bet you mean me. I am mellow, Danlo. But that doesn't mean I won't point out the things I don't like.

Well, the first auction is over, and the copy is now out of circulation. I will be leaving for New Mexico first thing next Wednesday morning, so there is a chance it will not arrive in time to go with me. If it arrives, it will be stuffed under the seat and make the journey. If not, I will find out an appropriate snail mail to send it to after I arrive home.

Duchess, that's awesome! I love it when the good guys win!

I think Duchess had an outstanding idea of returning the book to its creator. Also, I applaud her for notifying Ebay. These books were not meant to be sold to the public. It does not take a brain surgeon to see that. I am sure that whoever sold it on ebay is keeping it a secret from their boss because they would be fired! Whoever is selling them is committing a crime.

Duchess,

My guess is that SRD Will sign the ARC and allow you to keep it. Just my hypothesis. An ARC is typical in the publishing world and I don't see him feeling good about taking a book from you that you spent over $200 on. SRD will reap the benefits of Runes once it is published and I think he will be secure in the knowledge that an avid fan has possession of it. Just my two cents.

I seriously doubt that Dutchess went this far just to brag to Mr. Donaldson about how much that book cost her; she's already showing that she has more class than that.
However, if a third party were to mention Dutchess' selflessness to Mr. Donaldson, I'm sure he'd find an appropriate method of thanking her.

It is my sincere hope that he will NEVER know how much that book cost. In fact, if it arrives in time, I will probably pass it on to someone else at Elohimfest whom he already knows to give to him. No need for him to even know its from me.

Bravo duchy! (you're wrong Mr. Fixit it's not just you... )

Duchess -

So Dutchess, can you at least do the Chapter 1 through Epiloue Reads?


Please?



Pretty please?

He knows that the book was up for auction on E-Bay. He will be presented the book at Elohimfest. I'm assuming he will quickly surmise that someone purchased the book.

I wasn't insinuating that Duchy did this for recognition. Based upon what I know of Mr. Donaldson (mostly from the gradual interview) I'm suggesting that he will be uncomfortable in taking the book back even if he assumes it was purchased for $1 (Although I'm sure he'll realize it cost plenty more). My money is that he will let the purchaser keep it as a gesture of gratitude.

Regardless, it was a very classy move on Duchy's part.

Other copy on auction is here. I could read the ARC for free (the said friend who works at a bookstore), but I think I'd rather help keep this thing out of the hands of, um, bad people. Which means we are the good people.

What I would resent is my giving a bunch of my money to the seller. Why reward someone who is selling something he or she shouldn't be? Ebay might not shut down auctions of promotional materials because they are "questionable" items not outright prohibited/illegal, but if the publisher knew about the ARC, they would likely have Ebay do so.