Kevin's Watch

burgs66 wrote:

Romeo wrote:LOL!!!!

They feared Covenant because he didn't have Linden's health sense to guide his use of the wild magic.

Yet even in the first trilogy, he could have allowed his anger and hatred towards Foul ("He laughs at lepers") to cause a conflagration of wild magic that could have rent the Arch of Time, although that really wasn't an enormous concern at the time because Foul wasn't *trying* to get him to go crazy. Still, it could have happened, and even with his health sense.

Perhaps, but I don't think so. Remember the whole purpose of infecting Covenant with Marid's venom was to make him strong enough to be a threat to Foul. Foul, with the Sunbane behind him, was more than a match for "1st Chronicles Covenant."

[/quote]Perhaps, but I don't think so. Remember the whole purpose of infecting Covenant with Marid's venom was to make him strong enough to be a threat to Foul. Foul, with the Sunbane behind him, was more than a match for "1st Chronicles Covenant."[/quote]

Not to make him strong enough to be a threat to Foul, nor to make him strong enough to rent the Arch of Time. The wild magic itself, wielded by Covenant, Foul, Linden, or for that matter, Mhoram, is powerful enough. The venom was to cause him to lose control so that he might release a conflagration to cause a rent in the Arch, something he wouldn't do while in control, because, remember, he doesn't even think he can use it for most of the books. There's also the matter of the Worm, who could have been awakened by Covenant, and that would have been enough to shatter the Arch.

I dunno, didn't Tom say to remember he was dead?

I assumed that meant that whoever the Haruchai found out there that looks like him isn't really him

<shrug>

(Now that I've read it)

Of course, and for good reason, which we'll see in three years!

But that's not what I was addressing. I'm saying that the wild magic, wielded by anyone (freely given), can bring down the Arch of Time.

Believer wrote:I dunno, didn't Tom say to remember he was dead?

I assumed that meant that whoever the Haruchai found out there that looks like him isn't really him

<shrug>

No... That would kinda be lame, wouldn't it? "Oh, It's not him after all, what a suprise!"

"Not to make him strong enough to be a threat to Foul, nor to make him strong enough to rent the Arch of Time. The wild magic itself, wielded by Covenant, Foul, Linden, or for that matter, Mhoram, is powerful enough. The venom was to cause him to lose control so that he might release a conflagration to cause a rent in the Arch, something he wouldn't do while in control, because, remember, he doesn't even think he can use it for most of the books. There's also the matter of the Worm, who could have been awakened by Covenant, and that would have been enough to shatter the Arch."

That was Foul's purpose for it, but if you remember the Elohim told Linden that they could not remove the venom from Covenant because then he would not be strong enough to accomplish his purpose in saving the land. I believe they said something like "You believe your white gold is powerful, but in the scale of worlds it is a paltry thing. If it was not for the despisers greed in taking the Illearth stone, you would never have stood agaisnt him."
So maybe there was another purpose for him to be infected with venom(maybe it was to make him strong enough to attack Revelstone, or some other reason).

brinn18 wrote:

"Not to make him strong enough to be a threat to Foul, nor to make him strong enough to rent the Arch of Time. The wild magic itself, wielded by Covenant, Foul, Linden, or for that matter, Mhoram, is powerful enough. The venom was to cause him to lose control so that he might release a conflagration to cause a rent in the Arch, something he wouldn't do while in control, because, remember, he doesn't even think he can use it for most of the books. There's also the matter of the Worm, who could have been awakened by Covenant, and that would have been enough to shatter the Arch."

That was Foul's purpose for it, but if you remember the Elohim told Linden that they could not remove the venom from Covenant because then he would not be strong enough to accomplish his purpose in saving the land. I believe they said something like "You believe your white gold is powerful, but in the scale of worlds it is a paltry thing. If it was not for the despisers greed in taking the Illearth stone, you would never have stood agaisnt him."
So maybe there was another purpose for him to be infected with venom(maybe it was to make him strong enough to attack Revelstone, or some other reason).

I don't think that "anyone" with the Wild Magic could break the Arch.

The whole purpose of the Venom was make it possible for Covenant to use use the Wild Magic at a level that otherwise he could not reach by himself.
Remember that the Venom was affecting Covanents mind to a degree as well. He was losing control. If he didn't "fuse" himself in the Banefire he would have blown the Arch wide open.
One of the Despiser's goals (said by Findail) was for Covenant to be so crazy with power that he would attempt to fight the Worm to save his friends. Covanebt would have had to use levels of Power that would have broken the Arch too.
That's what I loved about the 2nd Chron, Foul had a few different options to destroy the Arch.

I have to reread the 2nd Chrons, but I don't equate madness with power. I equate madness with an increased likelihood to do things you wouldn't normally do if you were in your right mind.

Darth Revan wrote:ah... I understand now... and Foul never did tur up until the first Earthpower was used, did he?

Maybe, Foul was really weak and reduced... (probaby from being cast down by the creator) and the awakening of Earthpower enabled him to heal...

Food for thought...

But Foul was there before Berek starting using Earthpower.

In the legends of Berek, it is stated that he was at war with the King (who was being controlled by a Raver). During a battle, a gray cloud (The Gray Slayer) came down upon the field and caused all on Berek's side to despair. Berek's companions were slain, and he was driven the the slopes of Mount Thunder, where the earth itself spoke to him, and told him how to use Earthpower and create the first SOL.

That, then, means that the Elohim spoke to him, correct?

That never crossed my mind. I always took it to be more an intuitive comrehension, like Mhoram's knowledge of Desecration.

So who is it?

Well, we have five possibilites -- six if you count Berek. That we know of. Nine if you throw in Korik and his two Bloodguard companions. Many more if you count all of the Humbled through time. And we do have to count through time, don't we?

Covenant
Jeremiah
three haruchai from each generation since the Humbled started
Berek
Korik
Sill
Dor

Any that I have missed?

I see it as either Covenant or Jeremiah. Three of the Haruchai in the list are dead duchess. And the other three aren't much more in terms of power... No haruchai can threatened the Elohim. The Elohim could stop them with supreme ease... but we know they'd have a harder time with Thomas Covenant. Also, it's a chance they could be talking about Jeremiah... and who knows what his powers are? He's got to have a large role in these stories after all.

If you noticed Jerimiah is singing out to the riders and is obviously cured of his muteness. Of course what this means is open to much speculation.
Covenants apperance is perhaps simply that he still lives and has lived in the land. Or the fall's have been a part of it.
I loved reading this but at this stage it seems thin.
Stave is intersting as is the manethrall with the attitude. A graveller is also in the making you suspect. Liand.
Of course their is more to the servant of Revelstone then meets the eye.

Would it go so far as to be Roger?
Isn't he Covenant, in a sense?

beware the halfhand must mean Covenant. He said, "Remember, I'm dead."

So how can he be at Revelstone? He must be an Elohin. Kastenessen maybe?

i dont believe it can be an elohim. If you remember when the elohim were taunting the first with what pitchwife would look like healed, the first said there was one thing they couldnt imitate about Pitchwife... his eyes. At the end of Runes Linden specifically mentiones something about Covenants eyes and how they were full of determination or something. I think she would recognise an elohim(being Covenant) by its eyes.

No, not an Elohim, I just don't see it... Listen to me people. It's got to be Covenant really; A fake Covenant would be so easily uncovered. And Linden is going to be on the alert anyways, with the warnings "Remember I'm dead", and "Be wary of me". It has to be. Linden knows Thomas better than herself I think. And I certainly have no doubt in saying Linden would recognize her lover.

I think it is definitely TC that she sees but it won't be that simple. Remember how he walked into the Banefire and instead of burning Foul's venom out of him, it fused into him and became a part of him so he was an alloy of wild magic and venom, just as white gold itself is an alloy.

Now take that theme one step further. Three millennia have passed in the Land. Covenant has been dead all this time, yet he still exists in some form or another. Foul was unable to utterly destroy him, but Foul was not utterly destroyed. Who's to say that somehow TC has not merged with Foul?

Esmer is torn between the ideals of Haruchai service and the vengeful anguish of the merewives. What if TC finds himself similarly torn between his love of the Land and Foul's own evil machinations?