Kevin's Watch

Yeah, bleak is the wrong word. On reconsideration it does fit the Last Chrons better. But I find the Land under the Sunbane much harder to handle than under Kevin's Dirt.

It wasn't so much the bleakness of the last 2 series that made it less engaging for me, although i did find it harder to feel emotional about a land that was already sunbaned (in TPTP the land was already less than it was) it was the characters and more importantly their relationships and how i could relate to the issues.
For example when covenant bumps into Trell in Revelstone, i could really empathise exponentially with Trell and the magnitude of his pain, he just bumped into the man that raped his daughter! The sheer scale and drama of this emotionally charged encounter made for some excruciating but must keep reading material. The rape of Lena is a snowball of consequences that keep adding interest to each cant look encounter as his bargains and dealings to make up for it or to deal with it just heap more and more compound pain and hurt onto the remaining members of the family.
Arches of time and Sunbanes and Kevins Dirt were too abstract concepts for me to relate so strongly. Trells, Triocks, Lenas, Atiarans and Elenas were all emotional traumas and situations i could relate and understand more easily and i personally found them the most compelling part of the series.
The characters like Mhoram, Prothall, Foamfollower even Bannor to a degree are all interesting, have stories of their own and their relationship with covenant is an equal partnership. The actual backstory i thought at the time was quite standard fantasy fare so i can agree with those that rate the new series higher because the story and plot now is more original and interesting, the key to first series for me and what made it compulsive reading and highly engaging was the relationships and the soap opera. The fantasy backstory by TPTP to me was already a figment of Covenants mind but he was one over by the people in the land and the effect they had on him and so was i so i really got behind him when he trudged to fouls creche because like him i didn't care if it was real or not..it was worth fighting for. strike a blow for all those that believed in you covenant!!
Jeremiah? my heart didn't cheer when he was rescued.
i just thought "cool".

To be fair on Jeremiah, he hasn't had the chance to build up much of a following to date - most of the time he has spent staring vacantly into space with his jaw hanging open (or chewing mechanically) - not exactly high charisma stuff. I must admit I do slightly worry as to where his charachter will go now that he has managed to free it from Fouls(?) cage. I have an ominous feeling that he may turn out to be an Esmer like mixed blessing. Wath this (no longer vacant) space.....

Yeah I agree, I'm intrigued by his character, I think something very cool will happen with him and knowing SRDs work it won't be what we expect! I still love that about these new books, he keeps you constantly surprised. The biggest emotional hit came in this last book when Elena sacrificed herself for the party, it was an emotional throwback to the first series because it was a character I felt connected too. One of the biggest interests for me in TLD is whether covenant saves Elena from swmnbn as he intimated he might, I think maybe SRD feels that he wants to ease the suffering and reconcile some of the hurts of the first series. He certainly started the right way with Kevin. I loved the opening part of AATE, maybe I have an attachment issue but I feel more connected to covenants dead than the current living parties

Dou you know what I would love more than anything - and I know no-one else will be with me on this - I would love TC to 'fix' all the Elena, Linden, Lena, ie everything in the Land stuff (your man could yet do it you know!), and then to wake up and be reconcilled with Joan. Joan was a good person in the first series (in fact never a bad one - just tormented); she loved horses and they loved her. This (pulpy as it is) would do it for me. Does everything have to end badly in this day and age - can't we have something go right for a change.

No youre not alone in this, I would love that to happen to. After Elena's fall in TIW I went through all of the following books with a hope that TC would reconcile their meaning and suffering, after 2 books in the LC I hoped again and then pretty much gave up that hope and then all of a sudden Kevin is forgiven! They turn to Elena and my heart beats faster thinking I can't believe that he's going to forgive her.. And then linden chastises her! Hopes dashed. It's not going to happen I told myself even when caerroil wildwood has a go about it to linden. Then halfway through the book Elena appears an sacrifices herself to save the party, she's killed again!!! SRD has pulled my emotions around with this across all the books. Then as the manethrall has a go at covenant for how he has treated his daughter covenant intimates that he may confront SWMNBN for the sake of Elena. Again I live in hope that at the last she will be saved. It's not pulpy, I just like redemption which is a central motive of this story

peter wrote: Does everything have to end badly in this day and age - can't we have something go right for a change.

That's why the gap cycle was written--to give the audience a happy ending.

Unfortunately, we are now at the last act. Things will get a little worse before the final resolution, unless the resolution is "Foul escapes through the broken Arch of Time".

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:

peter wrote: Does everything have to end badly in this day and age - can't we have something go right for a change.

That's why the gap cycle was written--to give the audience a happy ending.

Unfortunately, we are now at the last act. Things will get a little worse before the final resolution, unless the resolution is "Foul escapes through the broken Arch of Time".

I agree, it will get worse before it gets better. But I definitely think it will be an up ending...lots of losses/deaths, but they will have been worth it, so don't lose hope, peter.

I'm confident SRD will come through in the end. His stories have to mean something and he's a bit of a humanist. If I'm wrong I'll eat that silver foil hat

Somebody in one or another thread on the Watch once compared Donalson to Dostoyevsky or Tolstoy or one of the other russian 'heavies' (gosh - this is all getting a bit loose isn't it ); if SRD is truly making his play for ascencion from 'damn fine writter of stories' to 'up there with the literary giants' (could he ever do that?) then I wouldn't bank too heavily on the 'happy ending' scenario.

I do hope not, i don't think a devasting end this tale would fit with the story. Imagine all those sacrifices ending up serving foul and installing him as the universes overlord, I think that would make a mockery of the whole series.
SRD isn't a making a morality tale but his own values do seep into this, Kevin has been forgiven, that's a good start.....I hope lol

Hashi Lebwohl wrote: Things will get a little worse before the final resolution, unless the resolution is "Foul escapes through the broken Arch of Time".

What do you think the odds on that particular outcome are?

I doubt the Despiser has any fear of the Worm. He is not of the world and as such the Worm likely will not be interested in him. If Lord Foul has any tanglible "powers" they come from him being not of the Worrld of the Land but from him being the "brother" or the Creator - such power is different that the power of the Earth that stems from the Worm.

Previous endings have always left the Land intact, even if they have both been tinged with sorrow to a slight degree. If he is playing to form then this is the best bet. HBowever we have seen in the last series that SRD seemed to want to play things a little differently this time and this would augur against the above. The title of the final book itself 'The Last Dark' is not the best omen you could have. But most of all I think we should listen to the advice TC keeps giving Linden and take our clue from the words "Do something that they don't expect"!

(Does Earthpowre stem from the Worm. Was the blood of the earth some kind of exudation from the Worm - do I remember that?)

a lot of broken teeth and one hell of an everlasting gobstopper

peter wrote:Previous endings have always left the Land intact, even if they have both been tinged with sorrow to a slight degree. If he is playing to form then this is the best bet. HBowever we have seen in the last series that SRD seemed to want to play things a little differently this time and this would augur against the above. The title of the final book itself 'The Last Dark' is not the best omen you could have. But most of all I think we should listen to the advice TC keeps giving Linden and take our clue from the words "Do something that they don't expect"!

(Does Earthpowre stem from the Worm. Was the blood of the earth some kind of exudation from the Worm - do I remember that?)

I THINK the Land is a gone, or at least fundamentally altered [though not necessarily everything that lives there]. I think I've said elsewhere that another possible meaning of "TLD" is that "This is that last time there will be this darkness."...which implies an upside after the dark. [yet another piece of my GUCCI--grand unified covenant chronicles interpretation]

All earthpower coming from the Worm...lead some interesting places, but creates some problems as well...my own view [with not much real evidence] is no, though they could be cousins...both emerging from the same fundamentals/necessities of this particular universe.

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:Things will get a little worse before the final resolution, unless the resolution is "Foul escapes through the broken Arch of Time".

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Why would that be considered an unhappy ending? When Tolkien had Morgoth kicked out to the Void in the Silmarillion, it was considered a victory. Getting Foul out of the Land would be great! Maybe he can escape through a crack, without the entire Arch breaking, and then the crack sealed again.