Battlestar Galactica Season 4-Expect Spoilers

Post by **Cail** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:59 am

I disagree about Bill & Lee. They actually brought this up in the special; once Lee reaches his comfort zone, he has to tear himself out of it. He did. Bill knew this about Lee, which is why he went off with Laura.

Post by **The Dreaming** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:04 am

Besides, I'm not sure these are characters you can exactly take at their word when they are talking their futures and their plans. Bill needs time to mourn, I'm sure he will track down Lee eventually. There was nothing final about their decisions, it was just what they needed at the moment.

It didn't strike me off at all. I DO kind of want to know what happened to Diana and Leoban (THE Leoban, you know who I mean). Diana was the last Diana in the universe, but she played absolutely no part in the last story. Retrospectively, that feels wrong.

Too bad they couldn't just keep Lucy Lawless as a regular cast member. Seems like she *guest starred* every damn episode in s3.

Post by **sindatur** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:06 pm

Sorus wrote:I really wasn't satisfied with Starbuck's disappearance. On the one hand, leaving interpretation up to us was interesting; maybe the producers wanted to acknowledge that their audience had brains and didn't need all the dots connected for them...

On the other hand, I wanted answers, and doing something vague and mysterious to avoid having to explain anything was a bit annoying.

And I feel sorry for poor Apollo, who was thoroughly abandoned by everyone he cared about. (Yeah, I know I got too emotionally involved in the series.)

And I'm really ticked off that they totally swept the Guardian Hybrid's prophecy under the rug at the last moment, since they teased us with it for months and it was the foundation of almost every theory I had regarding the end of the series.

Worst of all, I keep picturing Baltar with a harem of Neanderthals, and that's not an image you want in your head. Ever.

Eh, she died, and "God" resurrected her long enough to finish her part of the destiny.

As far as Kara being the harbinger of Death, she was responsible for Cavil's people being destroyed, and due to intermixing breeding, true Cylon and True Colonial races were also destroyed

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:01 pm

Ok.
I need a time line.
I think I'm lost in this though.

First Earth:
Humans create Cylons
Humans and Cylons wage war
Earth is destroyed

13th tribe of Cylons goes to....some secret planet.
12 colonies goes to Kobol
A supernova explodes and makes humans leave and create the 12 Colonies.

Humans on the Colonies create Cylons
War begins again
Colonies destroyed

Fleet goes to Kobol
Fleet goes to First Earth
"Bad" Cylons destroyed
Fleet jumps to Our Earth (they don't time travel but arrive in our past)

The survivors spread out and probably start the beginnings of the ancient cultures that we know today.

Ok, my biggest questions
Didn't the Colonies create their own Cylons?
Yet Cavil traveled from First Earth to the Colonies to continue to wage war on humans and to torture the Final Five for creating him.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 4:39 pm

The Dreaming wrote: It didn't strike me off at all. I DO kind of want to know what happened to Diana and Leoban (THE Leoban, you know who I mean). Diana was the last Diana in the universe, but she played absolutely no part in the last story. Retrospectively, that feels wrong.

D'anna stayed on Nuked Earth, there to spend the rest of her days. That's it for her.

Leoben was indeed seen at the end, telling Adama that the 2s, 6s and 8s would stay on New Earth with the humans. I'm surprised though that he wasn't shown in the battle scenes.

Post by **iQuestor** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 5:47 pm

HLT sed:

Yet Cavil traveled from First Earth to the Colonies to continue to wage war on humans and to torture the Final Five for creating him.

No. Only the final five travelled from Nuked Earth to the colonies, slower than light, to find the Centurions at war with the 12 colonies.

The Final 5 talked the centurions into ceasing the War with human in exchange for the ability to make skinjobs. Centurions accepted, and ceased warring. The humans didnt know why they had disappeared.

Cavil was the first skin job and was created after the first war. Then followed the other models.

Cavil was pissed at the imperfect bodies into which they were born; He killed off all the Daniels and then suffocated the Final Five and rigged their ressurections so they wouldnt remember who and what they were. He then placed them on the different planets of the Colonies to assume normal human lives.

Post by **High Lord Tolkien** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:13 pm

iQuestor wrote:HLT sed:
Yet Cavil traveled from First Earth to the Colonies to continue to wage war on humans and to torture the Final Five for creating him.

No. Only the final five travelled from Nuked Earth to the colonies, slower than light, to find the Centurions at war with the 12 colonies.

The Final 5 talked the centurions into ceasing the War with human in exchange for the ability to make skinjobs. Centurions accepted, and ceased warring. The humans didnt know why they had disappeared.

Cavil was the first skin job and was created after the first war. Then followed the other models.

Cavil was pissed at the imperfect bodies into which they were born; He killed off all the Daniels and then suffocated the Final Five and rigged their ressurections so they wouldnt remember who and what they were. He then placed them on the different planets of the Colonies to assume normal human lives.

Ah!
I get it now
I thought that Cavil was created on Earth.
Thanks.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 6:39 pm

Also, it all started on Kobol. The 13 tribes left there: 12 forming the Colonies; the 13th going to the other earth, which was destroyed by nukes 2,000 years ago. (Er, 152,000 years ago. Heh.)

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:43 pm

So, would a better timeline be:

Humans live on Kobol, create Cylons. Humans are really mean to Cylons, and a conventional war breaks out. Kobol is all but destroyed.

Humans leave Kobol and form the 12 Colonies. Cylons go to Earth (the 13th Tribe.) Along the way to Earth, they stop at the nebula planet and build the Temple of Hopes. These Cylons survived through resurrection, but eventually learn to procreate and resurrection is forgotten.

Someone nukes Earth and all but 5 Cylons are killed. The 5 Cylons have reinvented resurrection, and they set out at sub-light speed to the 12 Colonies in an attempt to prevent another Human/Cylon war. They stop at the Temple of Hopes on their way to the Colonies.

When the 5 reach the colonies, the Centurions are already at war with the humans. The cylons are trying to build skinjobs, and the 5 convince the cylons to stop the war in exchange for help with the skinjobs.

During the next forty years, the 5 create the 8 Cylon/skinjob models, including Cavil and Daniel. Cavil hates Daniel and kills him and all of his copies, then suffocates the 5. When the 5 download into new bodies, he wipes their memories and places them throughout the colonies.

The skinjobs attack and virtually annihilate the colonies and all but 50k humans are killed. The 5 miraculously survived the holocaust and find themselves spread throughout the fleet.

Then the events of the series happen, blah blah blah. Four years pass.

At the end, the surviving humans and the 2s, 6s and 8s arrive at a new, pristine planet that looks an awful lot like Earth. They decided to build an agrarian society.

150,000 years in the future, the New Earth is populated by beings who've descended from Hera, a half-human/half-Cylon child. These beings are experimenting with new AI robots.

"All this has happened before, and will happen again."

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:55 pm

I think that's perfect.

One thing I'm curious about, but I don't think we know, is: Was the 13 Tribe made up of only Cylons?

And, as it turns out, Baltar is not a skinjob. So how the hell did he survive that blast on Caprica??

Post by **sindatur** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:59 pm

Fist and Faith wrote:I think that's perfect.

One thing I'm curious about, but I don't think we know, is: Was the 13 Tribe made up of only Cylons?

And, as it turns out, Baltar is not a skinjob. So how the hell did he survive that blast on Caprica??

Yes, the tribe that went to Earth (that we saw nuked in S4.0 finale) was all Cylon.

Not very likely, but, in the Mini-series, we see Six protecting Baltar with her legs

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:30 pm

Baltar was protected by divine intervention?

Seriously, how else can you explain it? Not only that, but he finds Boomer and Helo, and Helo (as Cail mentioned above, the conscience of the series) gives up his own seat in favor of Baltar.

Post by **SoulBiter** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:30 pm

Syl wrote:Though I didn't have any problems with the last few episodes, I thoroughly enjoyed the finale. Really, compare it to a long list of sci-fi shows - Farscape, Firefly, The Invisible Man, Pushing Daisies, Dead Like Me, Space: Above & Beyond, even The X-files... It's an ending, and I think I'd still put it above any of the Treks (even TNG's).

I liked the finale of TNG more than this one but the two shows were no where near being in the same league. BSG was just incredible overall !

Cail wrote:I disagree about Bill & Lee. They actually brought this up in the special; once Lee reaches his comfort zone, he has to tear himself out of it. He did. Bill knew this about Lee, which is why he went off with Laura.

I dont think Bill is gonna build a log cabin all by himself.. or at least not much of one.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:38 pm

There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:11 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.

*pout*

I'm still working my way through the BSG, so I probably can't judge without bias yet. But I still hold that City on the Edge of Forever holds it own against nearly anything. Especially considering how long ago it was written and filmed.

Post by **Fist and Faith** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:00 pm

dlbpharmd wrote:There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.

Wow. Good thing you're not coming to my wedding, or I'd kick your ass.

Post by **dlbpharmd** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:05 pm

Fist and Faith wrote:
dlbpharmd wrote:There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.
Wow. Good thing you're not coming to my wedding, or I'd kick your ass.

I ain't skeert.

YouTube · Post by **Menolly** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:24 pm

hmm...

street smart New Yorker Fist
or
wirey mountain man dlb...

anyone care to lay odds?

Post by **Sorus** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:19 pm

Romeo wrote:But despite the lonely ending, I'm at peace with the end of what I feel was the best drama series ever.

I'll agree for the most part. There were a couple of things that really bugged me, but overall it was excellent.

sindatur wrote: As far as Kara being the harbinger of Death, she was responsible for Cavil's people being destroyed, and due to intermixing breeding, true Cylon and True Colonial races were also destroyed

That's as good an answer as any, but I'm still not satisfied. The prophecy was meant as a warning to the Colonial fleet, and it was supposed to offer Kendra a chance at redemption. It didn't have anything to do with Cavil, and it sure sounded like it meant something far more dire than interbreeding, which had already happened and had nothing to do with Starbuck.

dlbpharmd wrote: There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.

I'd say there's one, but that's a matter of opinion and I won't derail the thread with mine.

Trek was too afraid to take risks, and the characters were too black and white.

The grey areas are a large part of what made BSG such a great series.

Post by **sindatur** » Mon Mar 23, 2009 11:31 pm

Sorus wrote:
Romeo wrote:But despite the lonely ending, I'm at peace with the end of what I feel was the best drama series ever.
I'll agree for the most part. There were a couple of things that really bugged me, but overall it was excellent.

sindatur wrote: As far as Kara being the harbinger of Death, she was responsible for Cavil's people being destroyed, and due to intermixing breeding, true Cylon and True Colonial races were also destroyed
That's as good an answer as any, but I'm still not satisfied. The prophecy was meant as a warning to the Colonial fleet, and it was supposed to offer Kendra a chance at redemption. It didn't have anything to do with Cavil, and it sure sounded like it meant something far more dire than interbreeding, which had already happened and had nothing to do with Starbuck.

dlbpharmd wrote: There's not a single episode of any ST series that compares in any way with BSG.
I'd say there's one, but that's a matter of opinion and I won't derail the thread with mine.

Trek was too afraid to take risks, and the characters were too black and white.

The grey areas are a large part of what made BSG such a great series.

Well... it's the best I got

Also, their entire society/civilization was lost, as it was 150,000 years, and the kind of advancements the RTF would've given to neandrathal man wouldn't have actually occurred for 145,000 years (IE: Greek and Egyptian times)

When you say Kendra, was that a typo, or did you actually mean Kendra (from Razor)?

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Battlestar Galactica Season 4-Expect Spoilers