Kevin's Watch

People go mad in a million different ways - and people conquer madness in a million different ways also. If there is nothing you can do about something then do nothing. The world changes around you and 'does it' in your place. Do not forget that your mind is working in the background to heal itself even if you are not aware of it - this is the way we are made. In the meantime be patient - The sun will still rise tomorrow.

Harbinger wrote:

I was that way up until my 40s. I think that was my midlife crisis - wanting to have kids.



I guess it is better than dyeing my thatch and getting an 18 year old girlfriend.

Dude, I was under the impression that your "thatch" didn't gray. I suppose this was because I saw my granddad's. Damn. I keep trimmed, but I might have to go bald so I never experience "gray thatch."

I wasn't suggesting dyeing it back to a natural color from grey...

peter wrote:Do not forget that your mind is working in the background to heal itself even if you are not aware of it - this is the way we are made.

Sometimes.
When it's not attacking me!

peter wrote:In the meantime be patient - The sun will still rise tomorrow.

But this one I heartily second the wisdom of!

Well, I want to thank you guys for this thread and for things you've contributed to my life.



Because, so far, -I- think this has been my MOST depression-free winter in YEARS.
How many years?
Maybe only 2 or 3 years.
Maybe 10 or so. I'm not sure, though I do know someone who'd know better than I.

This thread has a particular balance of empathy and encouragement with the challenge to get up and take some initiative (with a side course of analysis/self-analysis).
It wouldn't be as helpful for everyone, but it has been really helpful for me, I think.
(So has the Watch's sense of humor and the laughter it's provided.)

That, along with me attacking the problem in about FIFTEEN other ways,* has just snowballed so that... things have been so much better.
I'm not going to assume "everything's alright now," but I am encouraged.
I do keep falling, but I think I'm confronting root issues more deeply, asking others for help more easily, and getting up faster.

To quote a movie I haven't seen yet, "I'll bet there are fifty-thousand coaches out there."



* Incidentally, people on this thread often encourage attacking the problem of depression in a wide variety of ways, with a diverse toolbox.

Glad it seems to be helping. Everything is a state of mind. Remember you can affect that state of mind for better or worse, and choose better.

--A

I've had a rather strange insight lately. About a year ago I learned (from this forum.. I don't get out much) about borderline personality, did some reading, and realized that was me in my late teens to mid-twenties. Then I found Jesus, got married, had kids, etc. Fast forward a couple decades. Still married, kids doing well, got a career, ran into a brick wall euphemistically called The Change (they don't tell you what you're changing into!). All of a sudden, HELLO!! Borderline all over again!!

I'm not sure what set me back but I feel like I woke up to a lot of realities I blinded myself to for a long, long time. Issues I thought I had worked through, boxes I thought I had checked off years ago! I.e.:

1) Blaming others for the way I feel, and thinking that if only they would change, I wouldn't be in pain.

2) Thinking if I was just a good enough Christian, God would be like Santa Claus and give me what I wanted-- after all, He wants me to be happy, right?

3) Understanding that I really can be a jerk to be around sometimes-- at least as jerkish as other people can be.

4) Realizing that there are times when I should just sit still and not make decisions, because my head is just too messed up.

5) Realizing that others are in the same boat as I am. And that it's good not to be alone.

I can do this. We can do this. We're not alone.

Avatar wrote: Glad it seems to be helping. Everything is a state of mind. Remember you can affect that state of mind for better or worse, and choose better.

--A

Hey Av, I always appreciate your positive thinking/personal responsibility take on things, but I've been meaning to chip in a couple of times to say...

I wonder if sometimes you don't need to acknowledge the very real chemical realities at play in some minds at some times. Everyone's physical configuration is different and for some, 'choosing' what to perceive and what to feel isn't as simple as it sounds.

Linna, SO glad to hear you're having a good run. I hope it keeps up.

Deer, this belongs in another thread , but

Nothing is as simple as it sounds. Saying "decide" does make it sound simple...like deciding to wear a red or a blue shirt. But I guess it's more like coming to believe it, and in believing it, it becomes the truth for you.

Sure, there are things like chemical imbalances, but that needs either treatment as a physiological problem, (if it is a problem), or the state that is so produced needs to be understood as part of what you are as well.

--A

Avatar wrote:Nothing is as simple as it sounds. Saying "decide" does make it sound simple...like deciding to wear a red or a blue shirt. But I guess it's more like coming to believe it, and in believing it, it becomes the truth for you.

Sure, there are things like chemical imbalances, but that needs either treatment as a physiological problem, (if it is a problem), or the state that is so produced needs to be understood as part of what you are as well.

--A

Yes, "deciding" to climb a mountain doesn't mean it isn't going to be grueling. And finding it grueling doesn't make you a failure.

deer of the dawn wrote:I've had a rather strange insight lately. About a year ago I learned (from this forum.. I don't get out much) about borderline personality, did some reading, and realized that was me in my late teens to mid-twenties. Then I found Jesus, got married, had kids, etc. Fast forward a couple decades. Still married, kids doing well, got a career, ran into a brick wall euphemistically called The Change (they don't tell you what you're changing into!). All of a sudden, HELLO!! Borderline all over again!!

Lately, I've really been struggling with God over the whole idea.. that whenever I manage to surmount one challenge (with His help, by His grace... though I soon will forget) ...HE'LL give me ANOTHER that I can't (without His help; and which I'm not morally-prepared for).

1) Blaming others for the way I feel, and thinking that if only they would change, I wouldn't be in pain.

2) Thinking if I was just a good enough Christian, God would be like Santa Claus and give me what I wanted-- after all, He wants me to be happy, right?

3) Understanding that I really can be a jerk to be around sometimes-- at least as jerkish as other people can be.

4) Realizing that there are times when I should just sit still and not make decisions, because my head is just too messed up.

5) Realizing that others are in the same boat as I am. And that it's good not to be alone.

Also, can I scratch the self-congratulatory paragraph from my previous post?
Let's strike it from the record, shall we?
always a rude awakening after something like that... I'm always missing something that should be plain as the nose in front of my face.. :facepalm:

Don't you hate it the way people often say what they want to believe, not what they believe?

deer of the dawn wrote:Yes, "deciding" to climb a mountain doesn't mean it isn't going to be grueling. And finding it grueling doesn't make you a failure.

Even not managing to climb it doesn't make you a failure. It just means you need to try again, or find a different route to your destination.

--A

You guys are all great. When I clicked on this thread (feeling bummed out at the time) I didn't expect to be so cheered up by the time I read through the last couple of pages.

I have spent so much of my life depressed and unhappy, that I feel like it has mostly been a waste. I thought I had the depression kicked for a while, but I have been stuck in a rut for several months now. I think it has a lot to do with being lonely for such a long period of time. I mean, I am a pretty solitary person, but when I don't even have the option of being around friends or family, it feels different, sort of hopeless. Well, of course I have the option, but requires quite a bit of travel time. But anyway, I just feel hopeless. I can't seem to figure out a way to make my life less empty. I can't find the logic to support the notion that things can change for the better.

Two weeks ago, I realized that I had been walking and standing all slumped over for quite a while. Which makes sense, because I feel defeated. But then I told myself that even if I will never know any happiness for the rest of my life, I don't have to act like a hurt puppy dog. My choices and failures lead me to my fate, and it is my fault and no one else's, so I can at least accept it and take it like a man.

So, I have been standing straight and walking upright, determined to face whatever lies ahead of me with dignity. And all of a sudden I felt better. I mean, logically I still see nothing good on my path, but I do feel better. I am looking forward to the things that I enjoy (fishing, riding, golfing--all easily enjoyed in solitude ) So what if there will always be a giant hole in my soul....I can still enjoy the heart-pounding thrill of wrestling a 30 pound catfish to shore, the wind on my face as I cruise down the highway, or the satisfaction of hitting a golf ball to within ten feet of the hole with a 9 iron.

But still there is the sadness and the empty feeling. I was told in a dream a couple months ago to not worry about what lies ahead and the only thing I had to do was have faith. I think about that dream a lot, because I don't know what I am supposed to have faith in. I actually came around this neck of the Watch looking for answers to my questions about faith, but came here instead.

Avatar wrote:Sure, there are things like chemical imbalances, but that needs either treatment as a physiological problem, (if it is a problem), or the state that is so produced needs to be understood as part of what you are as well.

I'm not advocating an approach without medication (though I am not advocating an approach with medication either), but my experience with chemical imbalances has lead me to believe that, at least in my case, that the surges aren't entirely arbitrary, that there are triggers, and that if you recognize what's happening to you, you can sometimes just calm yourself out of something. But what I have dealt with is mostly mania, I tend to have extremely dark/depressing thoughts without actually caring about them, so that is different. Just thought I would offer a perspective.

The alternative is creating a mania thread, and I'd rather take part in a discussion at a tangent than try and cultivate a new one.

Don't you hate it the way people often say what they want to believe, not what they believe?

When I notice it, I usually find it endearing...

Shuram O'Kayatetris wrote:...not worry about what lies ahead...

Regardless of how the thought arrives, it's good advice wherever possible.

--A

Shuram O'Kayatetris wrote:You guys are all great. When I clicked on this thread (feeling bummed out at the time) I didn't expect to be so cheered up by the time I read through the last couple of pages.

I have spent so much of my life depressed and unhappy, that I feel like it has mostly been a waste. I thought I had the depression kicked for a while, but I have been stuck in a rut for several months now. I think it has a lot to do with being lonely for such a long period of time. I mean, I am a pretty solitary person, but when I don't even have the option of being around friends or family, it feels different, sort of hopeless. Well, of course I have the option, but requires quite a bit of travel time. But anyway, I just feel hopeless. I can't seem to figure out a way to make my life less empty. I can't find the logic to support the notion that things can change for the better.

Two weeks ago, I realized that I had been walking and standing all slumped over for quite a while. Which makes sense, because I feel defeated. But then I told myself that even if I will never know any happiness for the rest of my life, I don't have to act like a hurt puppy dog. My choices and failures lead me to my fate, and it is my fault and no one else's, so I can at least accept it and take it like a man.

So, I have been standing straight and walking upright, determined to face whatever lies ahead of me with dignity. And all of a sudden I felt better. I mean, logically I still see nothing good on my path, but I do feel better. I am looking forward to the things that I enjoy (fishing, riding, golfing--all easily enjoyed in solitude ) So what if there will always be a giant hole in my soul....I can still enjoy the heart-pounding thrill of wrestling a 30 pound catfish to shore, the wind on my face as I cruise down the highway, or the satisfaction of hitting a golf ball to within ten feet of the hole with a 9 iron.

But still there is the sadness and the empty feeling. I was told in a dream a couple months ago to not worry about what lies ahead and the only thing I had to do was have faith. I think about that dream a lot, because I don't know what I am supposed to have faith in. I actually came around this neck of the Watch looking for answers to my questions about faith, but came here instead.

I can so relate to everything you've said here, Shuram. I too am having to tell myself every morning that my life is actually good, that I have much to be grateful for, that I need to stand up straight and face life with a welcoming expression... I mean, I have to go through all that every morning because I wake up all sad and empty and have to remind myself that the TRUTH about my life is NOT sad nor empty at all!!!!

I am all about this prayer lately:

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change,
Courage to change the things I can,
And wisdom to know the difference.

There are a few major realities of my life I just have a terrible time accepting the way they are (having finally admitted I cannot change or control them). That's what I'm working on right now.

Linna wrote:Lately, I've really been struggling with God over the whole idea.. that whenever I manage to surmount one challenge (with His help, by His grace... though I soon will forget) ...HE'LL give me ANOTHER that I can't (without His help; and which I'm not morally-prepared for).

Funny how that works, isn't it.

Linna wrote:Also, can I scratch the self-congratulatory paragraph from my previous post?
Let's strike it from the record, shall we?
always a rude awakening after something like that... I'm always missing something that should be plain as the nose in front of my face.. :facepalm:

Don't you hate it the way people often say what they want to believe, not what they believe?

Absolutely, Linna, and welcome to the club!

Avatar wrote:

deer of the dawn wrote:Yes, "deciding" to climb a mountain doesn't mean it isn't going to be grueling. And finding it grueling doesn't make you a failure.

Even not managing to climb it doesn't make you a failure. It just means you need to try again, or find a different route to your destination.

--A

Amen. Thanks for that, Av.

Shuram O'Kayatetris wrote:I think it has a lot to do with being lonely for such a long period of time. ...

Two weeks ago, I realized that I had been walking and standing all slumped over for quite a while. ...

So, I have been standing straight and walking upright, determined to face whatever lies ahead of me with dignity. And all of a sudden I felt better.

People are attracted to you when you are a confident, smiling and happy person. If you can do this then you will find you don't have to be lonely. People will be approaching you or you approach them and just say hello. Having a nice conversation with a total stranger is a lot of fun. If you don't know what to say, people love to talk about themselves and they love it when you want to know what they think about something.

On the other hand, people tend to avoid the slumped over type as you described at first. Well, not me. I approach and talk to them, too, but I think most avoids them. So, lonely, slumped over guy stays lonely and slumps over even more till he becomes a snail.

Glad you have taken some initiative to change your outward approach. As you found, it will change your inward approach, too. Of course, the more you do it, the more it will change you and it's not just some act- you are just wonderful and that's it.

Ananda wrote:Glad you have taken some initiative to change your outward approach. As you found, it will change your inward approach, too.

Yep. It really does work.

--A

Avatar wrote:

Ananda wrote:Glad you have taken some initiative to change your outward approach. As you found, it will change your inward approach, too.

Yep. It really does work.

--A

I second that. I have to walk very straight, almost regally, in order to avoid back problems due to scoliosis. When I do, I feel completely different than when I'm slouching. And, I get respect.

I feel "stuck." ...so I thought I'd post here.

I remember one time in counselling, my counselor gently said, "So no matter what you do, it's never enough, huh?"
She's awesome... twas so perceptive, and it's kind of a mental link that has been catching me and stopping me a little today.
So the possibility creeps in there:
Maybe it's not what I'm doing / not doing... so much as my perception of what I'm doing that's the problem.

Anyways, here's a question I've been wanting to throw out here for awhile- what are things that often happen around the times you come out of a depression?

(you don't have to say "I know this is the thing that fixes it"; so often we don't really know what's causing what.)

Holsety wrote:

Don't you hate it the way people often say what they want to believe, not what they believe?

When I notice it, I usually find it endearing...

That's a point. I haven't thought about it that way in ...awhile.

Linna wrote:what are things that often happen around the times you come out of a depression?

I hear birds. I see the sky. I feel people's smiles.