Kevin's Watch

Holly is soft. Hard "o" is like in holy.

Menolly wrote:

Mick wrote:

sindatur wrote:Finished the Second Pern Novel, and enjoying it pretty well. Skipped the third book of the First Trilogy for now, per Menolly's reccomended reading order, so, I am now working on the first book of the Second Trilogy.

Menolly, it's a good thing, your namesake was spoiled for me afterall, I never would have caught it. The Narrator is pronouncing it Men-uh-lee; I pronounce your Username as Meh-nawl-lee, and not seeing it written, it sounds like two totally different names

I met Anne McCaffrey at a book signing / "Lock-in chat" in Sheffield (UK) around 2000-ish and she told a story of a parent who named their daughter after her Menolly character, pronouncing her name men-owe-lee. After some colourful language, Anne pointed out it was pronounced Men-oll-ee.

She was quite a character and to the point

Is that owe as in "you owe me" (long sounding "O")? I've never heard it that way. Usually it is almost always pronounced with the short "O" (an aww sound). The discrepancy I've usually found is on the syllabic accent. I pronounce it men-AWL-ly. But I've heard it pronounced as MEN-awl-y as well.

Yes, owe is long sounding as " you owe me money" or "oh, that's a surprise"

Oll as in Molly or Dolly.

I almost suggested oll as in Colin the way us Brits' would say but Americans might pronounce that as Coalin

The English Language isn't well up on accents.... you say tomato and I say tomato

Oops; It was around 1995/96 when I met Anne in Sheffield, not 2000 as mentioned previously (Freedoms Landing was just out in hard back)

Avatar wrote:

sindatur wrote:(Two "L"s means soft "O")

No no, two L's is a hard "o" like in holly.

Sounds like a cultural difference in semantics.

We call a hard vowel the pronunciation of the vowel's name in the word, like in holy.

A soft vowel is the other sound, like in holly.

Y'all agree on the way it is actually pronounced, Plato and Aristotle.

Menolly wrote: I am a fan of the page devoted to her on Facebook, though.

That's probably the thing, then, and I just thought it was friends.

The folk I know who knew her must have met her in the late 80's or early 90's I think...but I might be wrong about that, too.

But, to nod at the topic:
I'm currently reading a very very long hard SF book [unpublished] by a
Comp. Sci. professor friend.
Unfortunately...it is also very very bad so far [300-ish pages into it]...
I don't know how I'm going to tell him without really hurting his feelings.
Cuz it doesn't need editing or rewriting...it needs to go in the circular file.
Preferably one with a black hole in the bottom so it has no chance of ever coming back into the universe.

Finished Caitlin R Kiernan's The Drowning Girl. It's very good.

Tomorrow I will start The Last Dark.

Menolly wrote:

Avatar wrote:

sindatur wrote:(Two "L"s means soft "O")

No no, two L's is a hard "o" like in holly.

Sounds like a cultural difference in semantics.

We call a hard vowel the pronunciation of the vowel's name in the word, like in holy.

A soft vowel is the other sound, like in holly.

So you say "apple" starts with a soft "a"? Y'all sure do funny things to your language.

What about consonants? Does "gentle" start with a hard or soft "g?"

--A

Avatar wrote:

Menolly wrote:

Avatar wrote: No no, two L's is a hard "o" like in holly.

Sounds like a cultural difference in semantics.

We call a hard vowel the pronunciation of the vowel's name in the word, like in holy.

A soft vowel is the other sound, like in holly.

So you say "apple" starts with a soft "a"? Y'all sure do funny things to your language.

"apple's" a difficult one. The sound is neither a long "A" (as in aviator) nor a soft "a" (as in assume). It's the same sound as the a in math...
...or is as, for that matter.

Avatar wrote:What about consonants? Does "gentle" start with a hard or soft "g?"

Soft. If the "G" has a "J" sound, it's soft. A hard "G" would be at the start of gorge, whereas the soft "g" ends gorge..

Avatar wrote: No, but you can bowl maiden overs. (It's basically a "no hitter.")

Mick wrote:I like fast and furious 20/20 matches

To be honest, I'm not much of a sports fan. 20/20 are a bit fast for me though. If I had to choose, it would be an ODI probably, although I'd wouldn't watch the whole thing, just keep an eye on it.

Actually, the last game I watched happened to be the greatest ODI ever played, which was years ago now.

Fist and Faith wrote:How about that. Getting a course in cricket!

And in this thread no less. Ah, you never know what will happen on the Watch.

--A

I'd like to go to a Qne Day International on holiday in another country but the only other decent cricket teams are a bit too far away from home. I'd like the Windies / Jamaica though.

I could only watch 20/20 from the armchair not at an actual cricket ground as there's so much going on!

"Apple" is soft a. "Assume" is schwa - ə.

Fist and Faith wrote:"Apple" is soft a. "Assume" is schwa - ə.

ah. (schwa)

Thanks Fist!

I think we should be saying long and short instead of hard and soft. At least for vowels. But not positive.

Fist and Faith wrote:I think we should be saying long and short instead of hard and soft. At least for vowels. But not positive.

Yea, normally. Hard and soft usually go consonants.
apple is short, not soft. Ape is long not hard.
HOWEVER...it can get confusing if we go across languages...
when an english speaker says something about a long i and a short i, they are talking about completely different sounds [nice, nit]
a spanish speaker, I believe, literally means the duration...the time the sound is made/held/sustained is short or long...but it is the same sound.
[Oh My....Ooooooh Myyyyyyy]

NEARLY on topic, though:
I'm WISHING I was reading Last Dark...but I am forbidden from doing so until christmas.

I started The Last Dark. But I'm slightly distracted by a rather shiny new writing guide book that arrived today.

Hmmm, I'll maybe give you that we should be saying long and short for vowels. With apple being a short A. But if you don't pronounce the "h" in "herb" I'm not listening to anything you have to say on the subject of English pronunciation.

Anyway, to get back on topic, I have a dilemma.

I can order TLD in hardback (with the US cover), and have it at the beginning of next month. Or, I can order it in the big (trade?) paperback (which they also call hardcover for some reason) and only have it at the end of next month.

In terms of matching the other volumes, it doesn't matter. I have RoTE and AATE in the big paperback with the UK covers (I guess), and my FR, which LuciMay sent me, (without inscribing it) is in the US hardback. So if I get the hardcover, I'll have 2 of each.

So which do I get? (The price difference isn't much.)

--A

They have a trade paperback out already? That seems odd.

And I'm with you on "herb", Av. There's nothing more jarring when reading than coming across "an h-", throws me out of the text completely.

You mean like, "It's an honor to meet you."?

"Honour". And no, I mean all the words that don't have a silent "h", not the one that does.

Avatar wrote:Hmmm, I'll maybe give you that we should be saying long and short for vowels. With apple being a short A. But if you don't pronounce the "h" in "herb" I'm not listening to anything you have to say on the subject of English pronunciation.

Well, you can stop listening to me right now then...except when I say the following, which is correct whether you want to listen or not:
In MOST cases [some exceptions, most due to drift]
the initial "H" is silent in words with Latin/Romance language roots, and pronounced in words with Germanic and related roots.
"Herb" [I had to look it up to be sure, and was right] is from Latin, through French...so the H is silent.

[I'm not going to check the etymology, but I'm pretty sure honest/honour/hours and such are in that line].

I'm going into "daughter of regals"....and will probably stick with other SRD until I'm allowed to read TLD at christmas.

If I was ever attacked by a bunch of thugs, I'd really like to have an Haruchai at my back.

You know, dropping your H's just makes you sound like a cockney. No one wants to hear that.