Kevin's Watch

Aaaaaaah okay My mind was befuddled because of the mention of the Earthblood.

Finally got around to reading chapter two.

WOW---a hell of a lot of information....
Although like all the Past of the Land; it is slightly tainted.

-I'm sure it wsa fairly acurate...but he seemed to shit on the Viles and their spawns a bit; it's no mystery that they're not overly fond of eachother. He aslo Seemed to breeze through Kassy, saying that's he's probebly not as bad as she thinks.
-I like Anele's history lessons much better...he gets it directly from the Land.

So where do you think they're going forst, Skywier to drink the Earthblood, or Thunder to free Jeramiah?

I have a small theroy on the Rest that TC as demanding...even though Linden felt that that he and Jerry looked fine...I think it's for them to return through the fold to give TIme a break. Of course I could be wrong-but that's probebly why Cov didn't want Linden anywhere near him...he didn't want anyone near him, 'cause he was going to dissapear.

Would it even be possible to reach the Earthblood through Skyweir?

dlbpharmd wrote:Would it even be possible to reach the Earthblood through Skyweir?

Who knows what the state of things is now west of Garrotting Deep.

However, all Linden has to do is travel back in time (using a caesure and the Ranyhyn) to when EB was accessible - which is any point in time between its discovery and the events of Illearth War.

Thranathiril

While re-reading Chapter 2, I just came to that same conclusion.

Ugg. I really hope there isn't any more time travel.-jay

Well, she needs to be the first, so it almost has to be time travel.

I wonder why it's important she be the first.... and whether Esmer will give her a clue what she should do with the Power

kevinswatch wrote:Ugg. I really hope there isn't any more time travel.-jay

Better get ready for it.

...

Wonderful...

-jay

Poor ole Linden.. Everbody doesn't want her to time travel. Maybe she get to meet Barek. Maybe she's the one who starts the whole shebang.
Maybe the Lords know about the Earthblood because of her.

Stay tune as "The Land Turns"

It sure looks like we're going in that direction.

If she is the First to drink the Earthblood...(As opposed to Elena I guess) that would mess with time...because back then Amok was the only way to get to the Earthblood, and he's only usable once.
And if that happens; then the Law of Dath wouldn't have gotten broken...then everything else wouldn't have happened.

Unless she goes back to BEFORE Kevin warded it (Or I guess it was Damelon who made the dorr) If that's the case, then what the hell would she command?
That the Skurj would dissapear? I can't see her being able to do anything that pivital without damaging the Law of Time.

-Whew!
Perhaps she just has to be the first todrink it THIS time...to make sure that no one else decides that they are rightous enough to try.

From a writing standpoint, it's very convenient that Esmer can only tell Linden so much. Just enough to string us readers along, but not enough to give up the next secret. It's a little too convenient, if you ask me. All the mysteries of the first book could have been easily revealed if Esmer had just said something. Ditto for all the mysteries now. Yeah, I know, he has this balancing act to perform between help and harm. And I do like that, especially how it's mirrored in Linden's own inability to help those whom she loves without committing harm along the way. Very "3rd Law of Thermodynamics." Moral entropy. In fact, we're all constrained by this law.

However, even though Esmer represents a predicament universal to us all, he still feels very much like a plot device. An "exposition machine" which can dole out just enough info for the story to get to the next stage, without generating spoilers. That's a little too close to the author's role, if you ask me. It breaks the spell of the story, the suspension of disbelief.

With that said, Oh My God do we get some answers! I still haven't had time to sort through all that info to see where it fills in the previous blanks in our knowledge.

But we do know who the fire possessor is now. (So that spoils my theory of Anele "channeling" corrupted Earthpower when he touches bare dirt.) We know what the skurj is, and that these are indeed the creatures Linden saw in her vision on during her translation into the Land--creatures which apparently she's to blame for releasing, if we're to believe Foul's "propaganda" during that vision. And this means Linden is responsible for the ending of the Durance. Something she did in the past has made this possible. Something to do with healing the Land with the new staff? A staff which is itself made from an imprisoned Elohim (who may also carry the "darkness" that has infected the Elohim)?

Wow. A lot to digest.

Malik23 wrote: Something she did in the past has made this possible. Something to do with healing the Land with the new staff? A staff which is itself made from an imprisoned Elohim (who may also carry the "darkness" that has infected the Elohim)?

It also seems likely that Kasty didn't break free from the Durance until Linden arrived in the Land - since Esmer says that the Elohim haven't intervened because she is present.

If the Elohim were corrupted by Foul, as the Earthpower itself was corrupted by Foul to create the Sunbane, then, when Findail was combined with Vain to create a new Staff of Law, would that not then have corrupted all Law? Could the very act of creating the new Staff of Law, then, have played into Foul's hands? It seems very like him -- even his enemies' victories work to his own ends.

Reminds me very much of the War of Souls from Dragonlance.

This is close to my current thinking on the issues, Emotional Leper.

For what it's worth, here's my theory, based on Chapter 2 of FR (and a poor memory of the earlier books).

Linden is wrong when she thinks Covenant is the greatest hero the Land has ever had, that he saved the Land twice. We know that in some sense, Covenant didn't save the land the first time, but merely sowed the seeds for Foul's return and the Sunbane (via Elena, among other things).

The second time around, he supposedly achieved victory by having Foul cauterize the poison from him, and then becoming part of the arch of time, standing guard over Foul and preventing his escape from the Land (and into our world, for example).

But we know from the beginning of RotE that wasn't a true victory either, or else the Land would no longer be threatened, the problems involving Joan, Roger, and Jeremiah in our world wouldn't be happening, etc. So what's the heart of the problem?

Covenant.

At the end of WGW he tried once again to save the world, and did so to an extent, but with a cost. Now that he is a part of the arch of time, the arch benefits from his strengths - but also suffers from his weaknesses. He may have overcome some of his weaknesses to a greater or lesser extent. In particular, he may no longer be an "emotional leper" (sorry EL), now having the capacity to love and be loved. But therein lies a new weakness: his love - for Joan, for Roger, for Linden, now perhaps even for Jeremiah. What good is an arch of time that will be willing to sacrifice itself - or the Land - for the sake of a few loved ones in another world? You could just see Covenant throwing it all away (again) to save these people, only this time, he would be sacrificing much more than his own life.

So the Elohim were right to fear Covenant, for even the "solution" he found at the end of WGW only deferred the problem, and in a sense, made things worse. Beware the half-hand indeed.

Esmer (perhaps in council with the Elohim) knows all this, and therefore has decided that Covenant's role in the Land has to be undone in the ulotimate sense: it has to have never been. This would certainly require time travel, but may also require stopping the summoning of Covenant by Drool and Foul, which in turn may require the Power of Command.

Why doesn't Esmer just tell Linden all this? Is it just a contrived authroial device to keep us reading. Perhaps. But ask yourself: are *you* sure that Linden would just do the right thing if she knew what was at stake? If she knew that she had to make it so that Covenant would still be a leper, would never have been to the Land, never met Linden?

Even if you *are* sure Linden would do the right thing, Esmer may not be.

Berenford wrote:Esmer (perhaps in council with the Elohim) knows all this, and therefore has decided that Covenant's role in the Land has to be undone in the ultimate sense: it has to have never been. This would certainly require time travel, but may also require stopping the summoning of Covenant by Drool and Foul, which in turn may require the Power of Command.

Another thing, though this may be a stretch: perhaps the connection to Drool is foreshadowed by Esmer when he goes out of his way to mention his kind:

SRD wrote: A flare of anger like a glimpse of the Illearth Stone showed in Esmer’s eyes. “And are you also ignorant,” he retorted, “that the <i>Cavewights</i> (SRD's emphasis) were once friendly to the people of the Land? I wish you to grasp the nature of such creatures. You inquire of Kastenessen, and I reply. That which appears evil need not have been so from the beginning, and need not remain so until the end.

I'm going to guess that the Viles were under both Mount Thunder and Skyweir...in TIW, it's clear that <i>somebody</i> had been building stairways and audience halls under Skyweir, and now we know that the Viles built "ornate and majestic caverns".

The "first to drink of the EarthBlood" line can be taken two different ways. It could mean, "Someone else is trying to drink EarthBlood, and you need to get there first". But I'm not sure who else would be after EarthBlood. Kastenessen could probably teleport straight there, and most of the other major players could have gotten there ages ago if they'd wanted to.

So the line could mean, "You need to travel back in time and be the first person to ever drink EarthBlood". But Linden can't change the past in a meaningful way without destroying the Arch of Time, so she needs to make a Command that won't have any effect until the present day.

The only thing I can think of is that she needs to slip a loophole into Elena's Command...something like, "Attention all dead people: If somebody commands you to do something, and if I'm in the Land, then check with me first." (Presumably the oldest Command takes precedence over the newer ones; otherwise Linden could drink the EarthBlood at whatever time she wanted.)

Charles Timewaster wrote:But Linden can't change the past in a meaningful way without destroying the Arch of Time, so she needs to make a Command that won't have any effect until the present day.

Oh. Yeah. Oops. I forgot about that.

Never mind.

Charles Timewaster wrote:So the line could mean, "You need to travel back in time and be the first person to ever drink EarthBlood".

In kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=12606 (thread about the FR cover art), dukkawaynhim says that we have been told that there will be no more time travel. Is this so? When/where did SRD tell us this?

If this is so, then your "race to Earthblood" idea seems to make the most sense.

Dr. Berenford