Kevin's Watch

The reason we dislike someone is because we see in them something we hate in ourselves, and, since it's easier to hate the external than the internal, we turn that self-loathing on other people.

Lina Heartlistener wrote:Okay, nm, there is no point in continuing this discussion. You're just hopeless. Seriously.

You see, I just read the chapter "Father's Child" for the first time a few hours ago and was totally blown away. So there's realllllllly no point for the two of us to keep arguing.

Actually, I didn’t realize we were “arguing” per se. I was just explaining why I happen to prefer Covenant. In fact, I even made the concession that I judge Linden more harshly because she’s easier to judge – a concession I hope anyone would have the good sense not to make if s/he was attempting to win an argument. Other than jokingly daydreaming about how nice it would be if Linden had jumped off Kevin’s Watch, I thought I was pretty reasonable in my assessment of her in that last post – not that I necessarily expect anyone to agree with my evaluation of her behavior, of course. In any case, when possible, you should refrain from turning a disagreement into an “argument” – it complicates things. Unless they’re about something important, arguments are (in general) a waste of energy. They too often include (or lead to) negative emotional responses. Seldom worth it.

Lina Heartlistener wrote: Because, given what you said, I don't think it's humanly possible for us to explain our POV's to each other.

Really? I disagree. Don’t assume that just because I dislike Linden, I can’t see why other people would like her. She’s just not my type of character. She doesn’t do it for me. But that doesn’t mean that I think people who do like her are “wrong” or stupid, or anything absurd like that. The fact that I personally don’t agree with your point of view about Linden doesn’t mean I can’t understand or accept it. Understanding and respecting another person’s point of view, doesn’t mean you have to take it up as your own. I can see why someone would like her. If you can’t see how it’s possible for someone not to like her, that’s okay – doesn’t really make any difference.

Lina Heartlistener wrote: And yeah, I guess I probably was wrong about my "which char you empathized/identified with" theory.

No, you were right for the most part; in the end, I did identify with Covenant – empathy just didn’t happen to be the first thing that drew me to the character. I hope my attempt to clarify specifically why I liked him wasn’t misread as an assault on your reasoning – I didn’t give that explanation simply so that I could prove you wrong.

Lina Heartlistener wrote: However... since I haven't looked through alot of the Gradual Interview on his website... now I need to look for the one where you described SRD as "setting Linden apart from his other chars."

I don’t know whether it was ever on the GI. Fist and Faith posted this link in another thread: stephenrdonaldson.com/fromtheauthor/page.php?Page=4

Wayfriend wrote:You know, I was listening to some election coverage, and one of the ideas that came up is that, if you don't like someone, you'll find a reason to not like them, and that'll be your explanation. But it won't really be the reason, if you know what I mean. Sometimes the real reason is very irrational, or something that you don't want to admit. For example, a lot of people don't like the idea of a woman president, but they won't say that, they'll pick something else about Hillary, like her health care plan, and say that that is the reason they won't vote for her.

So I wonder how much that applies to Linden Avery.

That theory may apply, but I assure you – my distaste for Linden has nothing to do with the fact that she’s a woman.

Emotional Leper wrote:The reason we dislike someone is because we see in them something we hate in ourselves, and, since it's easier to hate the external than the internal, we turn that self-loathing on other people.

Ahh, finally, after all these years, I understand why I dislike George Bush. I’m secretly ashamed of my own southern heritage, and I’m unjustly taking it out on him.

Emotional_Leper wrote:The reason we dislike someone is because we see in them something we hate in ourselves, and, since it's easier to hate the external than the internal, we turn that self-loathing on other people.

Yeah.. and that's one of those things that can be rather shocking to realize.

And yet I'm sure that statement alone doesn't necessarily contain the whole picture... but it's a humongous chunk of it. But I dunno - I'm not delving there right now. A few friends have convinced me to spend time focusing on "what is good" more right now, and... I that's very much what I need atm. And, well, I guess that's also another truth that's alluded to in the books...

stormrider wrote:Actually, I didn?t realize we were ?arguing? per se. I was just explaining why I happen to prefer Covenant.

Hehe, well I guess I was doing the arguing, then! I umm... tend to get defensive and a little over-immersed in the world of the books?

stormrider wrote:In fact, I even made the concession that I judge Linden more harshly because she?s easier to judge ? a concession I hope anyone would have the good sense not to make if s/he was attempting to win an argument.

Oh. I totally didn't see it that way at the time. (partially because not everyone would even see her as automatically easier to judge)

I'm also realizing that I view the characters of the books almost as though they are a part of my "real world" - and that's maybe a bit of a different perspective. So it would never automatically occur to me to step back and think, "Oh, that was an interesting choice of a character to put in the story" in this context.