FR First Impression

[Zarathustra]

All in all, I actually think the world was in a lot more danger from Covenant at the One Tree than it ever was from Linden running around in Berek's time.

Very well put Alek.

Yes, very well put . . . except for the part where it doesn't address my point. The danger in the past wasn't "Linden running around," but instead Roger drinking the Earthblood, commanding the Worm to Rise, and then escaping to become a god. Big difference.

And there's a big difference between "Linden running around in the past" and Covenant's One Tree example. People DID try to stop Covenant. The Elohim placed him in a "stasis" which was only broken by Linden violating him. Plus, Seadreamer tried to warn him and stop him repeatedly.

And it's different in several other ways, too. There was a specific purpose for that trip: Vain's transformation. The ONLY way it happened was by rousing the Worm's defense mechanism. So the entire purpose of going to the Tree was directly tied to the danger of going to the Tree, making it a necessary risk--whereas what Linden gained by going into the past (character development) could have just as easily been achieved in the present.

After the One Tree, before the next book, we're left thinking that his journey was a complete failure. We weren't given lame excuses for the entire journey (like "you couldn't have become the woman you are now"). No, we were left with an Empire Strikes Back "our team is down--how the heck are they going to pull victory out of this mess?" kind of feeling. But with FR, there's no defeat to overcome. That entire detour is neatly wrapped up, complete with bullshit explanations, so that we can conveniently forget that it ever happened. In fact, it's tied up so neatly that many of you are here arguing that it makes perfect sense. Even though it doesn't.

Over and over, I keep pointing out the differences between this example and the previous Chronicles. And I still haven't seen a convincing counter-argument. All you guys are doing by bringing up examples from previous Chronicles is equivalent to saying that the previous Chronicles were just as bad as this example (which I keep pointing out is wrong), instead of showing how the Linden example makes sense. For you to argue that the previous Chronicles were just as contrived and pointless doesn't prove your point at all. It just makes it worse. Thus, this is a losing strategy from the start, even if it weren't wrong in the details. So what is the point in saying that, "All in all, I actually think the world was in a lot more danger from Covenant at the One Tree than it ever was from Linden running around in Berek's time,"??? Do you think this example makes less sense than Linden's detour? If not, then you must think that it does make sense. And I agree. But one scene in a book written 20 years ago doesn't make a scene written last year make sense. It doesn't transfer its logic forward through time to justify Linden's pointless detour.

[I'm Murrin]

I think we're meant to see that she tooks risks others could have warned her of: and I think it's the authors mistake that this seemed less believable than it should have. I think Donaldson has a reason why people didn't interfere that will come out later in the series, but in the books so far he hasn't done a good enough job of disguising how incorrect it seems.

[Atrium]

I too felt that this book changed quite a bit between its first plot and climax (the journey to Melekurion Skyweir) to the second part (from Revelstone to Andelain). I wholly enjoyed the first part; the story, the writing, the new characters intruduced! When the story climaxed at Earthroot i was holding my breath and loving every second. Admittedly, i have a problem with time travel in fantasy. But i think this time, as opposed to when Linden goes to get the staff in ROTE, Donaldson uses this trick to actually serve the story. We get to meet some of his most fascinating characters by going back in time to when they were still alive.

I understand what Malik is saying about the frustration of being kept in the dark. I too think that the author overuses that device, both in ROTE and in this book. But i have another take on why all the good guys that could have warned Linden about Roger didnt. Maybe they thought that she, possesing healt sense and being warned (although in cryptic terms) over and over again, would figure out Rogers ploy long before Earthroot. I mean, she almost seem certain that Covenant is not whom he seems to be. What if she, instead of wasting her only Command on confirming what she already knows, had used the Earthblood for something more farreaching? Instead of asking for the truth about just Roger and Jeremiah, why not a new soothtell? Would that have been beyond the powers of the Earthblood? Of course its just speculation. But i dont feel offended by how Donaldson motivates his characters not telling Linden the truth outright here.

Like i said, i wholly enjoyed the journey to Earthroot. But then when we get back to present time the story loses pace quite a bit. OK, so Linden wants to go to Andelain. I can understand that. But the journey there didnt have me reading like a possessed. The first part did. And worst of all, the minor battles thrown in along the way, to keep us on edge, were NOT good action. Ive never really felt that Donaldsons forté has been his battle drama. Since Mhoram rode out to slay the raver in TPTP (one of my favourite fantasy battle moments ever) we havent been getting much in that departement from him. Oh, magical battles, fantastic! Mental struggles, great ones. But the hack n slash doesnt seem to be up his alley. The battle at First Woodhelven seemed to me, apart from sloppily written, totally uneccesary. We already know that Roger is abroad and mad as hell. No need to return him to the story that soon, let him lick his wounds for a while. The skurj on the other hand were a necessary introduction. We have been hearing about them for so long, now lets see them close up. But that confrontation also lacked something. I expect more from Donaldson than just to throw some mindless beasts at us. His best bad guys have been so much more.

Then finally, the story picks up the pace again as the characters near Andelain. I have no problem with the ending, apart from, as someone stated, maybe the aftertaste of FR would be sweeter if we hadnt, once again, been served a frustrating cliffhanger? But one thing in particular disturbs me here. When Linden is being confronted by Infelice, she dares her to free Jeremiah, and thereby making her hidden purpose (summoning Covenant) uncessesary. Good thinking Linden! But Infelice refuses, and we get told by the Harrower that the Elohim fears Jeremiah too much to free him. But hey: Jeremiah is currently in posession of a Croyel, serving Foul (supposedly)! Should not a posessed Jeremiah, serving evil, be more reason of concern to the Elohim then a freed Jeremiah helping Linden? Or are we to understand that the Elohim are safe from Jeremiahs trapbuilding as long as he is posessed? That would imply that the Elohim are serving the goals of Lord Foul.

[Zarathustra]

Atrium, well put. I did enjoy this book, despite my gripes. I was thrilled with the climaxes and thought they were well written. I just have a problem with how we got to those climaxes, and if they were the right ones to begin with (especially the first one).

Admittedly, i have a problem with time travel in fantasy. But i think this time, as opposed to when Linden goes to get the staff in ROTE, Donaldson uses this trick to actually serve the story. We get to meet some of his most fascinating characters by going back in time to when they were still alive.

Actually, I think time travel served the story better in Runes. It was necessary to retrieve the Staff. It wasn't a gimmick to take a tour through "olden times" and meet characters who are already long dead. Berek played no role in this story at all. And he shouldn't have. It's not his story. His story is done.

But i have another take on why all the good guys that could have warned Linden about Roger didnt. Maybe they thought that she, possesing healt sense and being warned (although in cryptic terms) over and over again, would figure out Rogers ploy long before Earthroot.

But if they actually wanted her to figure it out, then it doesn't make sense that they wouldn't tell her when so much is at stake. It's ridiculous to think they'd risk the entire earth on the hope that Linden would figure it out with a few hints. Something as important as the existence of the entire world isn't something you risk with unnecessary obscurity. Their hints illustrate that they want her to know. So what's the difference between giving hints and telling her outright? What force could possibly keep them from telling the whole truth, but still allow them to give hints by which the whole truth can be gleaned? That force would be simultaneously too limiting and yet too lenient. It's a contradiction. Either Linden's ignorance is so important that no hint can be given; or her knowing is so important that no mere hint should suffice.

Like i said, i wholly enjoyed the journey to Earthroot. But then when we get back to present time the story loses pace quite a bit.

Well, that's natural. You wouldn't be able to tell the climaxes from the rest of the book if there weren't narrative "lulls." That's just good story craft. It's necessary.

OK, so Linden wants to go to Andelain. I can understand that. But the journey there didnt have me reading like a possessed. The first part did. And worst of all, the minor battles thrown in along the way, to keep us on edge, were NOT good action. Ive never really felt that Donaldsons forté has been his battle drama. Since Mhoram rode out to slay the raver in TPTP (one of my favourite fantasy battle moments ever) we havent been getting much in that departement from him. Oh, magical battles, fantastic! Mental struggles, great ones. But the hack n slash doesnt seem to be up his alley. The battle at First Woodhelven seemed to me, apart from sloppily written, totally uneccesary. We already know that Roger is abroad and mad as hell. No need to return him to the story that soon, let him lick his wounds for a while. The skurj on the other hand were a necessary introduction. We have been hearing about them for so long, now lets see them close up. But that confrontation also lacked something. I expect more from Donaldson than just to throw some mindless beasts at us. His best bad guys have been so much more.

I agree completely.

When Linden is being confronted by Infelice, she dares her to free Jeremiah, and thereby making her hidden purpose (summoning Covenant) uncessesary. Good thinking Linden! But Infelice refuses, and we get told by the Harrower that the Elohim fears Jeremiah too much to free him. But hey: Jeremiah is currently in posession of a Croyel, serving Foul (supposedly)! Should not a posessed Jeremiah, serving evil, be more reason of concern to the Elohim then a freed Jeremiah helping Linden? Or are we to understand that the Elohim are safe from Jeremiahs trapbuilding as long as he is posessed? That would imply that the Elohim are serving the goals of Lord Foul.

Another conclusion is that Jeremiah himself is "evil." As Mahdoubt said, he has been under the Despiser's influence for a long time. I'm not sure he can be separated from the croyel and survive. Linden's wish may be futile.

[Atrium]

Actually, I think time travel served the story better in Runes. It was necessary to retrieve the Staff. It wasn't a gimmick to take a tour through "olden times" and meet characters who are already long dead.

I disagree. I never really understood why Linden had to go back in time to get the Staff in ROTE. Surely the staff was still in its hiding place in the present. Maybe its wayhim guardians were extinct. Maybe not. Esmer or some other knowledgeable person should have been able to guide them to it. And then he could still have brought on his little betrayal to compensate.

On the other hand, we still dont know exactly the significance of the changes in the staff; its blackness and the runes. If they are essential to some later purpose, then it was necessary to bring Linden back in time to when there were still earthblood and forestals. Likewise we dont know to what use the seven words can be put, or if some now living individual knows about them. Maybe the Theomach was the only insequent who had studied them?

Perhaps the meeting with Berek is somewhat of a gimmick (although i enjoyed it fully), but the events in Earthroot and Garroting Deep seem to be essential to the story. And i have a feeling that the Viles were not introduced as a coincidence. I think well see more of them later on.

Their hints illustrate that they want her to know. So what's the difference between giving hints and telling her outright?

Like i said, i share your frustration over the secrecy and hintdropping that characterizes the last cronicles so far. If we make an analogy with Lord of the Rings, we would have a Frodo that halfway through the story, somewhere in Ithilien, still doesnt know that hes supposed to go to mount Doom and melt down the ring. I mean, Linden still has not even figured out which enemy to tackle first. Instead shes just dodging the things thrown at her by her mysterious adversaries. Of course we can assume things about what shes supposed to do, based on previous experiences. But as Donaldson tends not to repeat himself, its pretty obvious that these assupmtions could to be wrong.

But still, in this particular instance, i dont feel that the secrecy is misplaced. The good characters can have many different reasons for not telling Linden the plain truth. Maybe it is like the Mahdoubt states, that Linden needs to make this journey to grow into her role as the lands defender? Maybe her power, with ring and staff, so outclasses Roger and the croyel, that there never was any real chance of her failing? Maybe she was supposed to use the earthblood for something else, and Roger was the only one who could get her to it? Maybe the Insequent were (too) certain that the Elohim would foil every serious threat to the Arch of time?

You wouldn't be able to tell the climaxes from the rest of the book if there weren't narrative "lulls."

Unfortunately the narrative "lulls" me almost to sleep several hundred pages, pretty much the whole trip from Revelstone to Andelain.

Another conclusion is that Jeremiah himself is "evil." As Mahdoubt said, he has been under the Despiser's influence for a long time.

I would have a hard time believing THAT. Maybe tormented or damaged, but not evil. I dont even believe that Roger is "evil". More like insane.

[SoulBiter]

The only problem I have with the sandgorgons showing up after she says Noms name is that it shouldnt have worked.

The whole thing with Nom answering a summons in the second chrons was the flaw that was put in 'Sandgorgons doom'. In WGW Nom had found the means to end that totally. So no doom = no flaw = no way for the name to call them.

[Stutty]

The only problem I have with the sandgorgons showing up after she says Noms name is that it shouldnt have worked.

The whole thing with Nom answering a summons in the second chrons was the flaw that was put in 'Sandgorgons doom'. In WGW Nom had found the means to end that totally. So no doom = no flaw = no way for the name to call them.

Nom came by choice IIRC. He also "said" it wouldn't work again; that his debt had been paid.

stutt

[Seppi2112]

Soulbiter is right - when Nom shows up in WGW it's because SandGorgon's Doom still exists and so Nom can hear the summons; he chooses to come because TC spared his life.

Once the Doom is destroyed and Nom is dead, calling his name should be like dialing a disconnected number from a broken telephone.

[wayfriend]

The "flaw" in the doom provides that the called sandgorgon must come, kill you, and return.

It does NOT provide the sandgorgon's ability to hear you when you call from anywhere. That's a natural ability of a sandgorgon. Just as the Doom does not give the sandgorgons the ability to cross the whole world in a few minutes ... that, too, is a natural ability of the sandgorgons.

So in WGW, the Doom exists, but Nom is no longer compelled by it's flaw, he "slipped it's bonds", heh. But when TC called him, he heard, because he's a sandgorgon, nothing to do with the flaw in the Doom. He came because he respected TC, nothing to do with the Doom. And he came fast, because he's a sandgorgon, nothing to do with the Doom.

Ditto in FR. The fact that the Doom no longer exists is evidence that the Doom did not provide the ability to hear the call.

Why do I believe that sandgorgons can naturally hear you call them from the far side of the world? For one, the Ranyhyn also can (they can also hear you ahead in time, too, but they are far away when they do).

Also -- and this is just me -- there is something suspicious about sandgorgons having names. Consider that they have no physical apparatus to communicate, nor did they have any ability to use telepathy until they consumed the Raver frags. So how could they have names? Their names, I conclude, are not ordinary names. ( This is something that I am exploring in a story I am writing ... )

[Aleksandr]

Re: The danger in the past wasn't "Linden running around," but instead Roger drinking the Earthblood, commanding the Worm to Rise, and then escaping to become a god. Big difference.

First off, I don't think Roger could have used the Power of Command to break the Arch of Time. The Earthblood is the ultimate in Earthpower, but Earthpower is limited. It can't affect anything that is prior to or outside the Earth. That includes Foul and White Gold and by extension it must also include the Arch of Time, founded on White Gold. So the Arch was safe no matter what Roger did. And I think the Worm also cannot be Commanded because it too is prior to the Earth. Wild Magic can rouse the Worm, but there's no indication that anything else can.
Also, recall that the Power of Command has some very dangerous blowback capabilities. I'm willing to bet if Roger had drunk and attempted a Command he might have screwed himself over far more thoroughly than Elena did. If all it took was someone drinking the Earthblood and uttering a Command on Foul's behalf he could have sent a Raver-possessed individual on that errand long, long ago. Again, rthe danger at the One Tree was far greater because uncontrollable, venom-infected Wild Magic was part of the mix. Here's that's not true: Linden isn't infected with any venom and her Wild Magic abilities don't rise to that level.

And there's a big difference between "Linden running around in the past" and Covenant's One Tree example.

And Esmer gave Linden an oblique warning too, without violating her the way the Elohim did Covenant.

There was a specific purpose for that trip: Vain's transformation.

And a specific purpose here too: the Runes. Good grief, we have a whole book named for those Runes; they're important.

But with FR, there's no defeat to overcome. That entire detour is neatly wrapped up, complete with bullshit explanations, so that we can conveniently forget that it ever happened.

Here the problem may be the organization of the books. Maybe SRD needed an editor who insisted on another triology. So that Runes could have been combined with the first part of FR. Not only would that have made Runes a better book, it would have left us with the sort of despair we had at the end of The One Tree.
I also think there's a strong element of 20/20 hindsight in your comparison: you know the whole story of the Second Chronicles. But come on, were you really satisfied with Findail's self-righteous and self-serving answers early in WGW? Didn't they also impress you as a teensy bit lame?

All you guys are doing by bringing up examples from previous Chronicles is equivalent to saying that the previous Chronicles were just as bad as this example

But I don't think they were bad at all. I just think you're being far harder on FR than you (apparently) were on the earlier books. You gave them the benefit of the doubt (or do now, with 20/20 hindsight) but won't do the same here. May I ask how old you were when you read the earlier books? Is it possible you are now seing with the adult eyes of cynicism not the youthful eyes of idealism?

[Atrium]

As i read this i also lean more and more towards the idea that the problem here is the editing. Donaldson would benefit from a strong editor that dares to challenge his vision of the series. I dont see the need for him to end his stories with cliffhangers. Theyre strong enough as stories to make us want to come back for more, without needing to use that kind of tricks.

If both Runes, and Revenant feels like good stories, but somewhat too long and unfocused, then a good editor should have cut out some dead meat and changed the overall distribution of events.

[Zarathustra]

First of all, let me say that you've presented your best arguments yet. Line after line, I kept thinking, "Okay, good point." This is fun. I hope my stubbornness isn't getting on your nerves.

I don't think Roger could have used the Power of Command to break the Arch of Time. . . And I think the Worm also cannot be Commanded because it too is prior to the Earth. Wild Magic can rouse the Worm, but there's no indication that anything else can.

If you're right (which is plausible), that saps all the tension out of the scene. If the danger wasn't real, and the stakes weren't really that high, then it seems even more like a cheap author trick. So I'm not sure how that helps you. In addition, why would it be necessary for Linden to drink first? Roger could have drank the EB, it would have had no effect or backfired like you said, and then Linden would know the truth simply from listening to his command.

However, I DO think that the EarthBlood could have woken the Worm. The worm isn't merely prior to the earth. It is the earth. The earth is (help me Wayfriend . . . what's the word?) the "crusty stuff" which developed on the Worm after it fell asleep. I think Earthpower is very much a part of the Worm--if it's a real Worm at all. In any case, it is fundamental to the existence of the earth, not separate from it.

And Esmer gave Linden an oblique warning too, without violating her the way the Elohim did Covenant.

Yes, I've dealt with oblique warnings in my last post.

And a specific purpose here too: the Runes. Good grief, we have a whole book named for those Runes; they're important.

How can the Runes be the specific purpose when Linden didn't know she needed them? How can she have a purpose that she's not aware of? Covenant was intentionally after a new Staff. Vain's transformation was necessary for that goal. Those two are directly connected. Yet, the fact that Linden picks up the Runes is entirely accidental, and wasn't a foreseeable consequence of going with Roger back in time. Therefore, it couldn't have been planned by anyone, much less Linden. Therefore, while it could have been Donaldson's purpose for sending Linden there, it couldn't have been any of the characters' purpose--which is my whole point.

And there's no proof anywhere that the Runes of the Earth are the Runes of the Staff. I thought it applied to the crucial knowledge conveyed through the earth itself via Anele's ability to read stone. In fact, I think Donaldson mentioned this on the GI. I'll try to dig up that post.

I also think there's a strong element of 20/20 hindsight in your comparison: you know the whole story of the Second Chronicles. But come on, were you really satisfied with Findail's self-righteous and self-serving answers early in WGW? Didn't they also impress you as a teensy bit lame?

True, I have the benefit of of hindsight with the 2nd Chronicles. Good point.

Yes, I was satisfied with Findail's character and motivations. I thought he acted perfectly reasonably.

All you guys are doing by bringing up examples from previous Chronicles is equivalent to saying that the previous Chronicles were just as bad as this example

But I don't think they were bad at all. I just think you're being far harder on FR than you (apparently) were on the earlier books. You gave them the benefit of the doubt (or do now, with 20/20 hindsight) but won't do the same here. May I ask how old you were when you read the earlier books? Is it possible you are now seing with the adult eyes of cynicism not the youthful eyes of idealism?

But weren't you saying something negative about Findail above? Which is it? Are the previous Chronicles just as bad, or just as good? I don't think I was giving them the benefit of the doubt. I was thoroughly enthralled. And I don't think it's an issue of being younger. I was just as much a critical, smartass bastard as I am now (maybe more). However, I reread them in 2005, and was even more impressed.

As i read this i also lean more and more towards the idea that the problem here is the editing. Donaldson would benefit from a strong editor that dares to challenge his vision of the series. I dont see the need for him to end his stories with cliffhangers. Theyre strong enough as stories to make us want to come back for more, without needing to use that kind of tricks.

If both Runes, and Revenant feels like good stories, but somewhat too long and unfocused, then a good editor should have cut out some dead meat and changed the overall distribution of events.

I was thinking the same thing about an editor. Actually, I was reading today's GI posts, and Donaldson acknowledged the "everything but the kitchen sink" nature of the Battle of First Woodhelven. He agreed, but said it was the lessor evil among several choices.

The EITKS (everything including the kitchen sink) problem in the battle of First Woodhelven. I'm well aware of it. And I did it on purpose. Because, well, because I like writing that way. And because its efficient. I mean that it solved several (admittedly oblique) storytelling problems simultaneously. And because I couldn't think of better ways to handle those problems. Every other approach seemed to rely on devices that would have (trust me) felt even more contrived.

Besides, this is an EITKS kind of story. <grin>

(11/28/2007)

Wow, he even used the word, "contrived!"

[wayfriend]

I think Roger could have used the Earthblood to destroy the Earth.

The problem was, the Elohim would have stopped him from trying.

However, according to how Donaldson seems to have set it up, because he approached it with Linden, the Elohim did not stop him, and left it to Linden to stop him.

The Elohim and Roger were both gambling on Linden's metal. The Elohim gambled that she would stop him, Roger that she would not.

As for the efficacy of the Earthblood... In TIW it says It holds no sway over anything which is not a natural part of the Earth's creation. Is the Worm not a natural part of the Earth's creation?

And White gold exists beyond the arch of Time - it cannot be Commanded. Is the Worm beyond the Arch of Time? By all accounts it is not. (Or, according to some theories, it is the Arch, which again means it is not beyond.)

[Borillar]

The Elohim and Roger were both gambling on Linden's metal.

Do you mean "metal", as in Linden's ring, or "mettle"?

I admit I have some trouble with the whole "the Elohim will stop Roger if Linden doesn't" vehicle. I realize that the Elohim prefer not to intervene in the Land if they can avoid it, but how could they rely necessarily on Linden figuring out the truth about "Covenant" and "Jeremiah"? If waking the Worm using the PofC was a realistic threat (and not merely the "lesser" threat posed to the Elohim by the Despiser), then this reliance seems odd to me.

[Borillar]

Anele is annoying as hell! Freakin' get over it, dude! He's been completely sane a couple times, but, "Woe is me! I failed! I'm not good enough! I'm nothing compared to my parents! I let things fall apart because I lost the Staff of Law!" Well the Staff's been found! Grab the damned thing and fix the problems! At least try! You have some extremely able and/or powerful folks helping you now!

For what it's worth, I think there's some indication in FR that Anele's grief is beyond just losing the Staff. I can't point to a particular passage because I don't have the book in front of me (a common problem), but there's some indication of this towards the end of FR.

[I'm Murrin]

There do seem to be hints that the full reasons for Anele's self-imposed madness have not been shown yet. I'm quite curious myself as to what he wanted to remember while they were crossing Salva Gildenbourne.

[emotional leper]

I thought the reason for Anele's grief was plain: Nothing bad that is currently happening would have happened if he hadn't lost the SoL.

Kassy slipped his Durance because Anele didn't have the SoL to prevent it.

The Masters took up their Mastery because Anele wasn't around with the SoL.

The Caesures could have been undone/healed with the SoL.

[wayfriend]

Do you mean "metal", as in Linden's ring, or "mettle"?

[emotional leper]

What do druplets have to do with this?

[Aleksandr]

Re: If you're right (which is plausible), that saps all the tension out of the scene.

How so? Elena could not have broken the Arch of Time either, but does that sap the tension out of her scene in TIW? So Roger couldn't have broke the Arch-- he could have done all kinds of other awful things. And Linden too, if only by mistake. Given what some people here think of her I suspect more than a few readers were imagining she'd screw up as bad as Elena did (and were disappointed that she didn't)

Re: Yes, I've dealt with oblique warnings in my last post.

Oblique warnings are the stuff of fantasy. It's hard to pick up a book in the genre without this sort of cryptic mumbo-jumbo in it. If one doesn't like it, well there's still what Marion Zimmer Bradley once dismissed as cheap novels about adultery in the suburbs.

Re: How can the Runes be the specific purpose when Linden didn't know she needed them? How can she have a purpose that she's not aware of?

TC did not know Vain's purpose in the Second Chronicles. Again, you are engaging in 20/20 hindsight here. And again, too, this is a common feature of fantasy novels, including SRDs: the main quest fails, but some side event proves crucial to the salvation of the world.

Re: Yes, I was satisfied with Findail's character and motivations. I thought he acted perfectly reasonably.

Even when I was finished with WGW I found the Elohim's behavior strangely incomprehensible. It just didn't add up. I think that's still an issue, and I think SRD has planned it that way-- there's something going on here we don't see yet.