Serious discrepancy in Fatal Revenant (spoiler)

[Relayer]

Wasn't there something in TOT where it said there was one branch whose end looked like it had been cut off? Ah, here it is...

Above its gnarled trunk, the Tree was wide-boughed and encompassing. From one of the nearest limbs grew a long straight branch as thick as his wrist. It ended in a flat stump as if the rest of it had been cut off. "I'll take that one."

So however Berek got that branch, it doesn't appear that he used Earthpower... more like a chainsaw.

[emotional leper]

Wasn't there something in TOT where it said there was one branch whose end looked like it had been cut off? Ah, here it is...

Above its gnarled trunk, the Tree was wide-boughed and encompassing. From one of the nearest limbs grew a long straight branch as thick as his wrist. It ended in a flat stump as if the rest of it had been cut off. "I'll take that one."

So however Berek got that branch, it doesn't appear that he used Earthpower... more like a chainsaw.

Well, if Berek is going to have to be played by Bruce Campbell, they better start making those movies already.

When Covenant tried to get a branch, wasn't it the combination of Foul's Venom and his own Leprosy that made him incapable of using the wild magic with enough precision to get a branch without rousing the worm?

Doesn't that mean that Linden Avery could do it, provided Esmer wasn't around?

[wayfriend]

I wonder if Findail roused the worm, in order to prevent Vain's purpose from being fulfilled. He's the one who was against the whole project, and he's the one who somehow knew it was the Worm and told everyone.

Another idea is that the worm was not roused by the combat, nor by Findail, but by the creation of the new Ak-Haru. The merging of Elohim, Insequent, and Haruchai nature in one being might have catastrophic consequences. Esmer, after all, insists on blaming the Haruchai for some unspecified "havoc": perhaps he blames Brinn for this union.

[dlbpharmd]

When Covenant tried to get a branch, wasn't it the combination of Foul's Venom and his own Leprosy that made him incapable of using the wild magic with enough precision to get a branch without rousing the worm?

Wild magic isn't a precise tool in anyone's hands.

[wayfriend]

Let's go over some things which Donaldson said in the GI. When, I presume he already knew about this II and knew how he would resolve it, because he doesn't mention the "rousing by combat" thing at all.

<sigh> Yes, the stump you mention probably *is* where Berek got the wood for the original Staff of Law. And no, I’m not going to tell you how he did it without rousing the Worm. Some things are better left unexplained. Others are too easily inferred to be improved by explanation. (12/31/2005)

Darn!

(And I won't even mention the special relationship between the Elohim and the Worm of the World's End.) (10/21/2004)

Aha!

But that does not imply that the world, or anything in it, is static. I've suggested elsewhere that just because Covenant and Linden found the One Tree in an island doesn't necessarily mean that Berek also found it there. And the fact that the Worm was "restive" when Covenant--and his white gold ring--approached doesn't necessarily mean that Berek faced similar difficulties. Indeed, it may well be that Berek's actions *caused* the restiveness that troubled Covenant and Linden. (10/30/2004)

Clue!

... but he does not say which of Berek's actions could be the cause. Maybe it was the trimming of the branch. Maybe it was letting the Theomach battle the Guardian. The Guardian had a special relationship with the worm.

[Aleksandr]

Re: The Guardian had a special relationship with the worm.

Here's a possibility then: the Elohim guardian wasn't just guarding the Tree, he was also there to keep the Worm soundly asleep. After that the worm became restive and liable to wake up should anyone else intrude on the Tree.

[wayfriend]

:chinrub:

[Fist and Faith]

When Covenant tried to get a branch, wasn't it the combination of Foul's Venom and his own Leprosy that made him incapable of using the wild magic with enough precision to get a branch without rousing the worm?

The thing is, Covenant didn't try to get a branch. He never had the chance.

But it looked to me like he did have good control and precision when he was about to try:

He opened a shutter in his mind, let out a ray of power. A tiny flame appeared on his ring. It intensified until it was as incisive as a blade. There he held it, intending to use it to sever the branch.

[dlbpharmd]

Good point, Fist.

[Bran Pendragon]

Bummer with the II, but at least SRD is man enough to admit before we work ourselves into too much of a lather trying to make it all fit.

I have a wild theory that may come to nothing, but emerged as a suspicion during FR. I think there is only ONE Staff of Law. The one that Linden created is the same one that Berek has and that TC destroys.

Think about it:
- we already know that the legends about how Berek did stuff aren't true. It's been shown that he's relied on others helping him a great deal more than we thought was the case.
- Linden's staff has been altered to resemble the "original" staff, with it now being covered in Runes, just like the original.
- It has the same iron heels as the "original" - at the time it made sense when you're making a new one, but I think those heals are actually a python-eating-its-tails type paradox.
- The descriptions we've had to date of how Berek made his staff make little sense.
- The Theomach purpose, so far as we've been able to discern it, seems concerned with the ensuring the two "creators" of staffs end up where they need to be. What, apart from creating Staffs of Law, do Berek and Linden have in common?
- It's "blackness" is wrong - so will probably be corrected at some point, so its not an obstacle to them being the same.
- It's a time travel story - so its entirely possible for Linden to show up when Berek finds the tree to give him the staff OR for the Theomach to bring Berek forward in time to take the staff back into the past.
- If the staff was already made, that explains how Berek "made" it without waking the worm.
AND FINALLY:
- Linden is presumably going to have to try something to stop the Worm-rampage. What's the bet that in doing so, she might lose the staff with it "stuck" into the Worm, for Berek to come and find later on, through some twist of time-travelling weirdness.

[Bran Pendragon]

Also, for me the simplest way to deal wit the inconsistyency is to assume that Findail was being economical with the truth, as he didn't want to admit an Insequent had bested an elohim and as he didn't want Covenant to start questioning that the elohim are all knowing. That doesn't bother me as I already viewed the elohim as manipulative and selective with the truth.

I know that SRD has said that wasn't what he intended, but its probably the best way to reconcile things now.

[Orlion]

Whew! It's time to try to iron out some wrinkles! Findail said that when Berek approached the tree, there was no Guardian. That in no way means that there had not been a Guardian(or two) beforehand. The Theomach has been stated as "defeating" the previous guardian (however that was accomplished) and it seems to me that he could have done it before he went to guide Berek to make the Staff of Law. Hence, Findail, though worthy of political office, is exhumed from straight out lying and the account given in FR is accurate as well, since there was a Guardian previously defeated by the Theomach before Berek's arrival at the One Tree, accounting for there being no Guardian in "his age" when he approached the tree. At that moment, he could have appointed (with a lower case 'a') the Theomach to be the Guardian of the One Tree...

At least, that's how I'm going to be able to sleep at night.....

[wayfriend]

Maybe you want to be happy with that theory ... then read no further. But several times it was stated in the story that the Theomach could not have found the One Tree if he was not in the company of Berek Halfhand.

[Orlion]

Well, there goes my sleep... who's up for a spot of cribbage?

[Ur Dead]

Findail said that when Berek approached the tree, there was no Guardian.

Findail could have said that if he only believed that the Elohim were the true Guardians of the One Tree. And when Berek approach the One Tree the Theomach had defeated the Elohim Guardian. So by Findial's account, there wasn't a Guardian. It may also be that it was Berek who declared the Theomach the new guardian after Berek got his branch.


Berek could have had help on getting the branch. Theomach moves so much faster than the regular people. But then the One Tree would have a need of a healer to sooth the damage from the cut. Maybe Linden, TC do a little traveling? Maybe they would find a clue on how to quiet the worm in their time.


And far as Berek getting Lindens staff. A paradox arises. Who made the metal ends? If Linden gives her Staff to Berek then the metal ends have no beginning.

[sweetbread]

Why does the Appointed guardian need to be sitting at the base of the tree?? I think we're all taking this a little too literally, and thinking that there was an Elohim that sat beneath the tree, smoking a pipe, and waiting to stop anyone from touching the tree.

We know that there was another Appointed that pertained to the trees (more specifically the forests), the Colussus of the Fall. Maybe THAT was the Appointed who protected the One Tree!?! The Colossus was the one who protected the forests/trees, and defeating her(?) could have been done without awaking the Worm.

We are told that a Raver was responsible for the fall of the Colussus, I believe, but that could either be a lie or a partial truth (maybe we'll find out that the Theomach is either a Raver or responsible for the Ravers.....)

Either way, I think that both Findail and the Theomach are correct; the truth is all in how you look at the matter.

[Rigel]

The strength of the Colossus was tied to the sentience of the Forests (that which gave rise to the Forestals), wasn't it? I always understood that the waning of the Colossus' power was due to the destruction of the Forests, which the Ravers were definitely responsible for.

Although I like the idea of the "Appointed" who became the Colossus being the one who was watching over the One Tree, and the Theomach being the one who helped the Forest bind him in the Colossus. Something about it just seems to scream, "In your face, Elohim!"

Of course that appeals to me, as the arrogance of the Elohim always grated on my nerves

[wayfriend]

When Brinn defeated the Guardian, he became the Guardian. Where did the old Guardian go?

In the place of his lost apparel, [Brinn] wore the colorless robe of the Guardian. ...

"I am who I am," he said evenly. "Ak-Haru Kenaustin Ardenol. The Guardian of the One Tree. Brinn of the Haruchai. And many other names. Thus am I renewed from age to age, until the end."

In his delightfully ambiguous way, Donaldson leaves it open to speculation. But it appears that Brinn and ak-Haru have become one person, who shares the history of both. Merged.

So what I wonder happened when The Theomach defeated the first, Elohim Guardian? Would they not, also, have become one person? Merged? An Elohim/Insequent?

It fits well with the Insequents envy of the Elohim. "Every other being that strides the Earth must strive for knowledge and power sedulously, at great cost. But the Elohim are power. They do not strive - and seldom encounter unease." Do not the Insequent covet this easy power? Would not the Theomach battle the Guardian to obtain it?

And isn't everything in the Final Chronicles about things merging with other things?

So if the Elohim merged with the Insequent (and then later merged with a Haruchai), that being would not be around later to be bound to the Colossus.

[dlbpharmd]

Agreed, good post WF.

[Relayer]

Although I like the idea of the "Appointed" who became the Colossus being the one who was watching over the One Tree, and the Theomach being the one who helped the Forest bind him in the Colossus. Something about it just seems to scream, "In your face, Elohim!"

Something about this idea makes me think of the Vizard, rather than the Theomach... he's the one who (it is said) wanted Jeremiah to make a trap to bind the Elohim.