Kevin's Watch

Tom, I started the whole series again after reading the first four books. I'm on 250 of MoI (3rd book) now. I wish I could impart some of my enthusiasm to you folks. This stuff is extraordinary beyond all belief. But even though it does get more amazing after GotM, I really love that book too. Maybe it's just not your cup of tea.

What F&F said- these books are simply fantastic on so many levels. I had trouble with the first book, too, but it's worth it. Promise.

(I'm about a third of the way through the third book and I left it at work today and I may just break down. )

drew wrote:Okay; I made it into the thrid part of the book now.

It's getting a little easier to understand.

One question: Albeit somewhat of a spoiler....
Does anything get resolved at the end of this book?

It will pretty much clear up any doubts you might now have about Anomander Rake being a complete BAMF w/ a BAMF'ing sword.

So I just finished GOTM this morning. I had to take another break when the kid was in the hospital...actually it was a good time to get some reading done; but I didn't have it with me, and started another book, so I finished that one first, then went back to Erikson.

It was good...VERY well written, good use of laguage.

It was fairly confusing though; I kept getting the Tiste Andii and the T'lan Imass confused

...and I found the story kind of...well....boring.
Don't get me wrong; the world building is incredible, but the actual story didn't hold my interest...perhaps it was all of the switching around of the charactors; it seems like it would be fun to write like that (Guy Gavriel Kay does it a lot too) but after about halfway, it seemed the charactors would switch every page..or less.

I'l probebly read some more of the stories, but not right yet.

I'm glad I read it though

I can understand your problems with it. Certainly with all the characters!

Thinking now about your feeling for the story itself, I would guess that's what everybody means when they say the writing improved so much after GotM. Malik's comments about it, particularly the end, when it seemed Erikson was just suddenly throwing a bunch of uber-powered beings around for fun, seemed right to me too.

Again, I've only read the first four books, and GotM is definitely the weakest in that regard. IMO, the next, Deadhouse Gates, is the best in that regard. Although it goes back and forth between two stories, my impression of the book is one, long, incredible story. Even though some characters and events in Memories of Ice blow away anything else I've ever read, and the story does not lack for cohesiveness and excitement, the story of Coltaine in DG is among the most moving things I've ever read.

Anyway, I'm glad you made it through GotM!

I don't mind morethan one story happening at once...it's just that each bit of the storywas only lasting three or four paragraphs by the end.

Does Deadhouse Gates start right where gardens left off? Or is it much later?

Deadhouse Gates is set shortly after Gardens of the Moon, but it takes place on another continent entirely. Crokus, Apsalar, Kalam, and Fiddler all return as characters (arriving in Seven Cities after their departure from Genabackis at the end of GotM), but the rest of the cast is new.
Memories of Ice, on the other hand, is the direct sequel to GotM.

No Whiskeyjack or Paran?

Too bad.

And holy frig...it took me long enough to realize that Seven Cities WASN'T on Genebackis....I had figured it was the shaded area of towns in the south eastern area of the map!!

don't worry. they're both back in Memories of Ice.

Just to cover the plotlines, most characters in the series move like so:

1-->3
2-->4--->6--->7

5--->7

The plots that start in 1 and 5 have some characters who move to book 6 and switch around plot lines, but IMO this is pretty much how the series has gone so far.

I believe 8 is a continuation of 3.

I really can't understand why anyone would expect to get into a 10 book, 10,000 page (i guesstimate) epic after 200 pages?

Furthermore, why would anyone want too? After 200 pages everything is obvious and clear? Why bother?

I think people who have tried and failed citing "I couldn't get into it" type reasons really haven't understood what they were undertaking.

Lets's say a standalone novel is 400 hundred pages, and you quit after 150, that's fair enough you read 40% (i guess) and still hated it. But deciding you don't like a series that's been wideley lauded as being outstanding by the FF community after reading 5% seems crazy to me.

Of course, lit is entirely subjective.

I am in Memories of Ice right now. I'm loving it. I took a brief sabbatical while house sitting cuz I had CABLE TV! The reading will commence tonight.

drew wrote:So I just finished GOTM this morning. I had to take another break when the kid was in the hospital...actually it was a good time to get some reading done; but I didn't have it with me, and started another book, so I finished that one first, then went back to Erikson.

It was good...VERY well written, good use of laguage.

It was fairly confusing though; I kept getting the Tiste Andii and the T'lan Imass confused

...and I found the story kind of...well....boring.
Don't get me wrong; the world building is incredible, but the actual story didn't hold my interest...perhaps it was all of the switching around of the charactors; it seems like it would be fun to write like that (Guy Gavriel Kay does it a lot too) but after about halfway, it seemed the charactors would switch every page..or less.

I'l probebly read some more of the stories, but not right yet.

I'm glad I read it though

Drew, he doesn't jump around as much in the next three books; while he does follow multiple storylines, he gives you nice chunks of each at a time.

However having that said, I find Erikson to be a very uneven writer - he can be brilliant (my personal favorite of his books was the second,
Deadhouse Gates) and he then can turn around and be boring as hell and padded and self-indulgent (like where he really jumped the shark in Midnight Tides). I find his books frustrating - particularly MT and after because I know he can write so much better than the crap he has been putting out lately. I mean - much as I loved books 2-4, I am really reluctant to even read the latest book, RG.

I have been trying to do a reread starting with Gardens, but I have been literally having to force myself to pick up the book. It has not been pretty. And this knowing how much I enjoyed the next three books after Gardens the first time around. Yesterday I found myself rereading the first Harry Potter book instead.

Darujhistan wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would expect to get into a 10 book, 10,000 page (i guesstimate) epic after 200 pages?

Furthermore, why would anyone want too? After 200 pages everything is obvious and clear? Why bother?

I think people who have tried and failed citing "I couldn't get into it" type reasons really haven't understood what they were undertaking.

Lets's say a standalone novel is 400 hundred pages, and you quit after 150, that's fair enough you read 40% (i guess) and still hated it. But deciding you don't like a series that's been wideley lauded as being outstanding by the FF community after reading 5% seems crazy to me.

Of course, lit is entirely subjective.

I understand you point...(and I'm only aguing for the sake of argument, since I did finish GOTM)

But after two hundred pages of confussion, why would someone keep reading, in the hopes that it's going to get better by the fifth book.

A good book , should always be good, or at least most of the time; who would read a book they didn't like, even if they heard that five books down the road it might get a little easier to read. again, dont get me wrong, Gardens was good...just confusing.
Thomas Covenant books, were awesome, all the way through, and right from the get go they were easy enough to understand.

The real oly thing I didn't like about Gardens, was all of the name throwing of gods and races, and off-scene charactors, that you wouldn't hear who they really were for many more chapters...obviously, as I keep reading the series, I'll understand who these people are...just not the beggining of Gardens.

Cameraman Jenn wrote:I am in Memories of Ice right now. I'm loving it. I took a brief sabbatical while house sitting cuz I had CABLE TV! The reading will commence tonight.

Go, Jenn, Go!!! What an incredible book!!

drew wrote:

Darujhistan wrote:I really can't understand why anyone would expect to get into a 10 book, 10,000 page (i guesstimate) epic after 200 pages?

Furthermore, why would anyone want too? After 200 pages everything is obvious and clear? Why bother?

I think people who have tried and failed citing "I couldn't get into it" type reasons really haven't understood what they were undertaking.

Lets's say a standalone novel is 400 hundred pages, and you quit after 150, that's fair enough you read 40% (i guess) and still hated it. But deciding you don't like a series that's been wideley lauded as being outstanding by the FF community after reading 5% seems crazy to me.

Of course, lit is entirely subjective.

I understand you point...(and I'm only aguing for the sake of argument, since I did finish GOTM)

But after two hundred pages of confussion, why would someone keep reading, in the hopes that it's going to get better by the fifth book.

A good book , should always be good, or at least most of the time; who would read a book they didn't like, even if they heard that five books down the road it might get a little easier to read. again, dont get me wrong, Gardens was good...just confusing.
Thomas Covenant books, were awesome, all the way through, and right from the get go they were easy enough to understand.

The real oly thing I didn't like about Gardens, was all of the name throwing of gods and races, and off-scene charactors, that you wouldn't hear who they really were for many more chapters...obviously, as I keep reading the series, I'll understand who these people are...just not the beggining of Gardens.

Well i didn't say five books down the road - and my point was that when you have prior knowledge of this series, and therefore you know it's epic, and you know that Malazan is a series that isn't a straightforward fantasy novel like "Magician" for example then you ought to be prepared for confusion. I suppose what i'm getting at is people quit GOTM without really giving it or the series a chance.

There's no doubt the opening half is a dizzying experience though and kudos to anyone who sticks with it as SE says "You either hit the ground running or you're toast".

I wasn't really aiming my comments at you personally it was a reaction to something that annoys me a little, people giving up real early becuase GOTM is confusing.

If people really don't like it, if it is too difficult for them - then by all means throw it away, but it seems strange and sad to me that people armed with prior knowledge give up without really trying.

I can remember GOTM first time around, and i was definitely thinking "What the hell is going on?" and "Who the heck is so and so" so i can sympathise with anyone starting off - i just wish folks could be patient and stick with it.

Of course if Malaz isn't your fantasy bag at all - then of course don't bother continuing!!! and i wouldn't suggest anyone read five novels to see if they liked it or not! the most i'd suggest read GOTM and give DG a go - and if you still can't get into it - QUIT!

I've the first four Covenant novels and tend to read one a year - The One Tree is next, and while they are good i find SD a little verbose, whereas a i don't feel SE wastes a word. It's all personal opinion though, i'm pretty new to FF and the older stuff i've read just seems a tad dated (barring JRR).


Darujhistan.

Like I said; I did get into it...and I'm glad I'm not the only person who found Garden's confusing...I'll keep reading the series; I've got to help out my fellow Canadians.

IMO disliking confusion in a fantasy book might be a bad thing to come into the malazan series w/. Personally I like the worlds because even in book 7 there's a lot of stuff I don't know. Though you do get mysteries in the first books explained as you go through the books.

Sometimes they are incredibly minor details which are just interesting to find out - for instance (Memories of Ice minor spoilers)

Spoiler

in book 3 they find a body which was killed on a separate continent in book 5.

It has nothing to do w/ the overall plot, just gives a weird sense of "SO THAT'S WHAT/WHY THAT WAS!" They also let you figure out the order of events in the books a bit.

Yeah, I'm with Holsety. Very cool to see things come to fruition later, and even much later. I thought it was great to see a certain character for the first time in the 4th book. The scope of it all is just amazing.

Fist and Faith wrote:Yeah, I'm with Holsety. Very cool to see things come to fruition later, and even much later. I thought it was great to see a certain character for the first time in the 4th book. The scope of it all is just amazing.

4th book was amazing (well so were first 3 for me, though I know some only really loved it during #2 or #3). For anyone annoyed w/ constand perspective switches it narrows down to (w/ a few rare exceptions) a single character's POV for the first part of the book. Although I enjoy the multiple plotlines it was interesting to see erikson focus all his talents on fleshing out one character.