Kevin's Watch

Ah, I understand the African-American connection now. Fans of Hile Troy (Obama) are hoping that he'll lead Fleshharrower (Hillary) into Garroting Deep, where Caerroil Wildwood (uh, Martin Luther King??) is waiting.

yikes!

If only. I wish. From your lips to God's ear, etc.

*agony*

personally, I find it offensive to insinuate Hillary is FleshHarrower; The Giant Raver is not here to defend himself, and that was insulting, abusive and way over the top. I wouldnt be surprised if FleshHarrower didnt speak to anyone ever again after being compared to such. Giant Ravers have feelings as well, and should be respected.

IEW mentions Hile Troy having Dark Wrap around glasses during Vespers along with the absence of bloodguard in the enclosure, or on TCs attempted denial of his summoning by Elena, i cant remember which. also he is carrying an ebony sword, there were no indications by physical characteristics that he was African American. so my conclusion has to be it was the glasses and the ebony sword making us think the way we did...ebony would lead me to think about the song ebony and ivory by stevie wonder. The wrap around glasses would remind me of the glasses I see Morpheus(Matrix) today or Shaft(Shaft) back in the day wearing so who knows what our minds make out of those little pieces of information.

Lavar Burton Could be Hile Troy though wrong forum i know but..hes already got the visually impared role down pat. Star Trek Next Generation..Jordie or the younger Kunta Kinte in Roots. He Just needs a Beard.

Syl wrote:I was just offended (not really) that you included the lame Richard Pryor line but left out the slightly more pertinent analysis.

I stole a couple big quotes but then deleted some because I didn't want it to be too long. I was originally just gonna post a link to the thread...but (never realized this) for some reason my computer was displaying www.kevinswatch.com as the url for every post (instead of the thread urls).

Sorry for being tight-assed about that, Holsety. It's just that a blanket statement like that can't help but rub me the wrong way. (See my post in the Unfettered thread where I say I sometimes take things way too seriously in discussions about the Chronicles.)

It's ok. The problem is, I often post humorous things without to make it clear I am joking. There have been a couple of misunderstandings in the Tank in the recent past (I think I sarcastically typed some sort of stock quote from the bush admin and someone thought I was agreeing with it). You ain't the only one.

And the truth is that my actual POV is more in line with this:

But I'll just repeat my own view: at no point anywhere in TIW did I ever get the faintest whiff of a notion that Hile Troy was "African-American."

But I do have to admit I can see how stuff others have mentioned could have led them to think otherwise.

Ah, I understand the African-American connection now. Fans of Hile Troy (Obama) are hoping that he'll lead Fleshharrower (Hillary) into Garroting Deep, where Caerroil Wildwood (uh, Martin Luther King??) is waiting.

I just submitted "Hillary raves" and "Hillary is Fleshharrower" to the "hillary is mom jeans" website.

Doubt they'll get in but whatever.

matrixman wrote:Ah, I understand the African-American connection now. Fans of Hile Troy (Obama) are hoping that he'll lead Fleshharrower (Hillary) into Garroting Deep, where Caerroil Wildwood (uh, Martin Luther King??) is waiting.

Nah. It says explicitly in "Garroting Deep" that Wildwood is white.

D'OH!

Syl wrote:

matrixman wrote:Ah, I understand the African-American connection now. Fans of Hile Troy (Obama) are hoping that he'll lead Fleshharrower (Hillary) into Garroting Deep, where Caerroil Wildwood (uh, Martin Luther King??) is waiting.

Nah. It says explicitly in "Garroting Deep" that Wildwood is white.

Also isnt' the dude on fatal revenant the forestall?

Because as everyone knows cover art is totally canon for the rest of the series.

Completely. Donaldson totally screwed up the text when he described the Staff, because it's obvious that we can see what it looks like and it doesn't have heels.

Syl wrote:Nah. It says explicitly in "Garroting Deep" that Wildwood is white.

I think I also remember the line : "And lo, Covenant did gaze upon the grim and harrowing mien of Troy, like unto an implacable visage of Snake Plisskin."

I am among the several who had the impression that Hile Troy was African American.

Syl wrote:

matrixman wrote:Ah, I understand the African-American connection now. Fans of Hile Troy (Obama) are hoping that he'll lead Fleshharrower (Hillary) into Garroting Deep, where Caerroil Wildwood (uh, Martin Luther King??) is waiting.

Nah. It says explicitly in "Garroting Deep" that Wildwood is white.

That's just a metaphor for King's dream that everyone would one day be blind to differences in color. He's "white" in that his skin tone is not noticeable.

ebony would lead me to think about the song ebony and ivory by stevie wonder.

Kudos for your bravery in admitting that anything would make you think of that, Blackhawk.

I stick with my Bono thing. Works for me!

Fascinating. I, too, always visualized Hile Troy as black. I just assumed I had read it in the text. I like him better that way whether the text validates this or not. And I doubt SRD would have any issues with that.

I too had gotten the idea Troy was of African heritage. I'd have thought the fact at least as worthy of mention in his description as his anomalous (for the Land) shades, unless someone's theory IIRC that the Haruchai look like Africans holds any water.

Skimming thru TIW, in the chapter where Covenant meets Troy, something jumped out at me like a Cavewight on meth. When Troy first takes off his shades to Covenant, the sight is described thus:

His sockets were empty, orbless, lacking even lids and lashes. Blank skin grew in the holes where his eyes should have been.

(emph mine)

I almost thought "Blank" read "Black," & it's possible I misread it that way my 1st time too.

I never thought that Hile Troy was black

when I first read the second book, and the bit about him being in a think-tank came up, my first thought was of the Dan Aykroyd movie "Spies Like Us", cuz the movie starts with him down in the basement of some government...building or something, and thats what i always think of when i hear 'think-tank'...

all the characters on all the covers are always white...there arent really any black people in any of the books, as far as I can remember...

im white, so, unless otherwise informed, I usually assume characters are white, since thats what im most familiar with...


never in all the times that i have read the first, or second series, did i ever think of Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles


I have no problem with Hile Troy being black, i just really dont think hes supposed to be...of course, who am I to say what other readers should get out of a book?

Re-reading the Chronicles again I exactly feel the same as the OP here. Immidiately I came here to check and found this thread.

Now you could argue, that it is a cultural thing, that there might be some implicit things about Troy that Americans can identify as typical "traits" of black Americans. Just as some one told me that Ernie is black and Bert is white - something a German viewer would never suspect.

But it seems to be different in this case since I (German) pictured Troy black as well. The Geordi LaForge reference might explain it.

Is it really described anywhere what the ethnicity of the characters are? TC could be black or asian or something different altogether. I think that SRD purposely leaves these details ambiguous because he wants us to create the characters by filling in the blank spots, giving a limitless diversity to his books and appealing to everybody

But it's very interesting to find out WHAT makes people from different cultures get the SAME impression. Living in a country with not really a lot of black people I should be less sensitive to implict hints in this regard ...