Kevin's Watch

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

lucimay wrote:well i'll tell ya, the rape of lena has never made much sense to me.
yeah yeah i've read all the "he was impotent for so long" explanations.
that still just doesn't fly to me.
it's a justification to say that he didn't believe the world was real.
rape is rape. its preditory, it's control issues, it's angry and cruel.
the man is transformed (if thats what you can call it) to another
place and time, another world, and the first thing he does right off
the bat is rape a defenseless girl?
yeah, no, there's nothing i can even understand in that, much less
relate to.

Does Covenant know he's been translated into another world? Are such things commonplace? And who has been defending the rape of Lena? Nobody I know of. It's not a matter of justifying the act so much as justifying Donaldson's need to put it in his book. The same could be said for many incidents in the Gap novels.

It didn't make sense to me at first, but it came to as the story developed. There are a multitide of things about TC, other char's, and the Land itself, that carry extra impact/weight because of this [from both an inside the story and outside view].
And no one, not even TC, ever justifies it...they pretty much think what you think.

Vraith wrote:

TheWormoftheWorld'sEnd wrote:

lucimay wrote:well i'll tell ya, the rape of lena has never made much sense to me.
yeah yeah i've read all the "he was impotent for so long" explanations.
that still just doesn't fly to me.
it's a justification to say that he didn't believe the world was real.
rape is rape. its preditory, it's control issues, it's angry and cruel.
the man is transformed (if thats what you can call it) to another
place and time, another world, and the first thing he does right off
the bat is rape a defenseless girl?
yeah, no, there's nothing i can even understand in that, much less
relate to.

Does Covenant know he's been translated into another world? Are such things commonplace? And who has been defending the rape of Lena? Nobody I know of. It's not a matter of justifying the act so much as justifying Donaldson's need to put it in his book. The same could be said for many incidents in the Gap novels.

It didn't make sense to me at first, but it came to as the story developed. There are a multitide of things about TC, other char's, and the Land itself, that carry extra impact/weight because of this [from both an inside the story and outside view].
And no one, not even TC, ever justifies it...they pretty much think what you think.

Well yes, it's part of his character's arc. He starts out thinking it's a dream (is it rape if it occurs in a dream? there is nothing to justify about dreams).
As the story progresses the dream takes on more reality for him. He learns to care about the Land as if it were reality, and no doubt moreso.

That scene also forms part of his characterization. The moral truth about a person is revealed in a situation where one believes there are no consequences, as in dreams. Thus Covenant's moral stature is revealed whether the rape was "real" or not. So it doesn't matter if the rape was "real" or not.

The rest is the story of Covenant's redemption or atonement.

On the subject of Lena's rape, one question springs to mind: what does Foul get out of it?

In book three we see that Foul gets a very powerful weapon, Elena as his wife wielding the Staff of Law. Another Drool Rockworm.

So I can't help but search for possibilities that Lena's rape was carefully planned by Foul and Jehannum. But its a tough nut to crack.

My own course of action, (if I were attorney for the defence) would be to investigate Troy's role with respect to Elena, and Wildwood with respect to Covenant. Luckily I'm not obligated to unravel one of the biggest paradox's in modern fantasy fiction.

I never felt that I could never really understand or relate to TC. As a result never really liked him and especially Linden. I was mostly lured in by a mad attraction to something that pissed me off. The land and it's denizens is really what made it glorious for me. Probably deep in my mind I never really bought into the whole concept of TC's grand problem ( or Lindens ) but that's fine, I bought into plenty of other stuff.

larocca wrote:You don't have to have leprosy to be an outcast.

You don't have to go to the Land to be powerless.

Anyone who can't relate to Thomas Covenant is dead.

Before it's lost in the bustle, let me reply to larocca with

my sentiments as well.

What teenager cannot, at some level, relate to TC's feelings of isolation and exclusion and powerlessness.... I'm not saying such feelings are necessarily justified, but that doesn't make them any less real.

I think somewhere else on the Watch someone drew a parallel between readers of the Chronicles and a taste for the melancholy and dark in music... that also makes total sense to me. I loved the Smiths.... if you aren't attracted at some level by the dark and melancholy you probably wouldn't have made it through LFB.