A Momentary Lapse of Reason reconsidered

[dANdeLION]

It's possible that parts of Final Cut were parts that were recorded during the Wall sessions, but didn't get used.

[Cail]

Cail, if you are addressing my critique about the guitar solos, s'true, but I also think the same type of guitar solo makes its way into The Final Cut, which is when I decided it was Gilmour's trademark sound, at least during that period. Or he was phoning it in a bit due to band tensions at the time due to Waters taking over Pink Floyd, for the most part. I've only heard a bit of post-Waters Floyd, so I can't comment too much on what they sound like after that, but from what I've heard, it is different enough to not warrant the same critique.

The Final Cut does have some Wall leftovers.

[Cagliostro]

That makes sense.

[Cambo]

I love recurring riffs, motifs, etc in concept albums. Adds repeat listening value trying to pick them all.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I agree with Cail to a large extent, that this is a relatively overlooked gem in the Pink Floyd catalogue. In fact it was my favorite album for a few years, I (and my friends) used it often as mood music for writing a book we were working on back then. I am particularly drawn to "Signs of Life," "Sorrow," "Yet another Movie," and "One Slip," but there is not one song on the album that I dislike in any way.

I am in total disagreement about "On the Turning Away". Gilmour returns to the themes of the magnificent "Us and Them" with attention turned outwards rather than inwards, compassionate and earnest rather than alienated and cynical. Gilmour's singing and playing is as beautiful and openly affected as anything else he's done. This song -- an unironic, unashamed reformer's hymn masquerading as rock anthem -- is as utter a departure from PF's habitually cynical, melancholy motif as one can imagine. It is inspiring to me, and I am unashamed to admit has raised a tear at times. I think the whole album succeeds largely with the same sturm und drang emotional rawness this song embodies. Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

BTW, I note that TDSOTM has scant few proponents on this thread... amazing since I consider it the greatest rock album released during my lifetime!

[dlbpharmd]

TDSOTM is the greatest rock album, period.

[Orlion]

Nah, DSotM was merely a culmination (an awesome one, but a culmination non-the-less). I think Pink Floyd hit their height with Wish You Were Here and Animals... but I also loooove twenty minute songs

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

TDSOTM is the greatest rock album, period.

Albums released before I was born (January '73):

White Album / Abbey Road
Paranoid
Are You Experienced? / Electric Ladyland
Exile on Main St. / Goat's Head Soup / Let It Bleed
Led Zeppelin I-IV
Who's Next / Tommy
Disraeli Gears
Eat A Peach
etc.

It's not that you're wrong, it's just that it's less clear cut.

[amanibhavam]

Funny thing about The Division Bell....While in some ways it's more of a cohesive album, I think there are more songs on it that have Gilmour's solo stamp on them, particularly "Poles Apart", "Take it Back", and "Coming Back to Life".

The three standouts on TDB; "What Do You Want From Me?", "Keep Talking", and especially "High Hopes" are as good as any other Floyd song though.

Funny you should say that, I recall High Hopes is one of those songs that Gilmour wrote and played all by himself (except for the lyrics, written by Polly) - he just turned up one day with the complete track recorded.

[amanibhavam]

Ah, a Pink Floyd thread - the best excuse ever to frequent KW again:)
I won't take any sides in the Which One's Pink debate here, I am one of those unfortunates who admire each every note these people have ever produced, from Arnold Layne to High Hopes, band or solo, Syd or no Syd. They just... resonate with me, I can't get enough, no matter how many times I've listened to them.

Hellfire, only ten years ago we were still busy 'weeding' bootleg PF recordings on the echoes mailing list(we called them RoIOs, recording of illegitimate origin, as in olden times record companies tried to ban mailing lists etc. distributing bootlegs and this was one way to avoid them finding out), which involved receiving the bootleg on a CD from a total stranger, and the copying it and weeding to 5-10 other complete strangers. Oh, the days... now one can of course go to Yeeshkul or some other place and download practically anything on broadband in hours.

[StevieG]

Hey, amanibhavam, you sound like a Pink Floyd tragic, in a good way

I was very obsessed with them at one point in time, and purchased everything I could. I've never seen Pink Floyd, the band, live. But Roger Waters is coming to Australia next February, and I will be going to that. I'm looking forward to the show.

[Cail]

I am in total disagreement about "On the Turning Away". Gilmour returns to the themes of the magnificent "Us and Them" with attention turned outwards rather than inwards, compassionate and earnest rather than alienated and cynical. Gilmour's singing and playing is as beautiful and openly affected as anything else he's done. This song -- an unironic, unashamed reformer's hymn masquerading as rock anthem -- is as utter a departure from PF's habitually cynical, melancholy motif as one can imagine. It is inspiring to me, and I am unashamed to admit has raised a tear at times. I think the whole album succeeds largely with the same sturm und drang emotional rawness this song embodies. Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

Not at all.

I think that it dates the song a bit though, and I think that it's a bit overbearing and.....dare I say....pretentious? It's still a very good song, and I agree that it's linked to "Us and Them".

But when I refer people to what I consider to be great PF songs, it's not one of the ones I recommend.

[Menolly]

But Roger Waters is coming to Australia next February, and I will be going to that. I'm looking forward to the show.

You got tickets?
Woo-hoo!
You are going to be amazed. It is sooo worth it.

[dANdeLION]

Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

Wow, what an uncharitable and uncompassionate comment. Kind of odd, coming from a guy who tears up at a Pink Floyd tune that's just not all that emotionally charged, IMO.

[amanibhavam]

But Roger Waters is coming to Australia next February, and I will be going to that. I'm looking forward to the show.

You got tickets?
Woo-hoo!
You are going to be amazed. It is sooo worth it.

Seconded! It rocked at the O2.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

Wow, what an uncharitable and uncompassionate comment. Kind of odd, coming from a guy who tears up at a Pink Floyd tune that's just not all that emotionally charged, IMO.

There's a context, and it isn't entirely serious. Just mostly.

BTW, I take issue with the notion that the song isn't emotionally charged. Just listen to the guitar solos for Chrissakes -- bombastic to the max.

[Obi-Wan Nihilo]

I am in total disagreement about "On the Turning Away". Gilmour returns to the themes of the magnificent "Us and Them" with attention turned outwards rather than inwards, compassionate and earnest rather than alienated and cynical. Gilmour's singing and playing is as beautiful and openly affected as anything else he's done. This song -- an unironic, unashamed reformer's hymn masquerading as rock anthem -- is as utter a departure from PF's habitually cynical, melancholy motif as one can imagine. It is inspiring to me, and I am unashamed to admit has raised a tear at times. I think the whole album succeeds largely with the same sturm und drang emotional rawness this song embodies. Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

Not at all.

I think that it dates the song a bit though, and I think that it's a bit overbearing and.....dare I say....pretentious? It's still a very good song, and I agree that it's linked to "Us and Them".

But when I refer people to what I consider to be great PF songs, it's not one of the ones I recommend.

My experience of this song opposes yours; the contrast elicits superficial curiosity. That is, as someone that listened to the album heavily on release and has continued to listen to it periodically through the years, I used to like "On The Turning Away" significantly less than I do now, and I find that it now has much greater emotional impact. Perhaps it is because I have progressed to a milieu more in line with the songwriter than it was 25 years ago. The comparative meaning of this aesthetic shift vis a vis your own counter shift is imponderable and probably irrelevant.

So I won't ask you to confess to being Scrooge any longer. At least, not on this basis.

[Vraith]

and I think that it's a bit overbearing and.....dare I say....pretentious? It's still a very good song, and I agree that it's linked to "Us and Them".

But when I refer people to what I consider to be great PF songs, it's not one of the ones I recommend.

I agree mostly...lyrically it seems to have dropped the poetic and veered toward proselytizing. "Us and Them" seemed participatory, this like a lecture from the podium.
The music side of it seemed more powerful live than the studio...though that may just be cuz I love things live.

[Cail]

I am in total disagreement about "On the Turning Away". Gilmour returns to the themes of the magnificent "Us and Them" with attention turned outwards rather than inwards, compassionate and earnest rather than alienated and cynical. Gilmour's singing and playing is as beautiful and openly affected as anything else he's done. This song -- an unironic, unashamed reformer's hymn masquerading as rock anthem -- is as utter a departure from PF's habitually cynical, melancholy motif as one can imagine. It is inspiring to me, and I am unashamed to admit has raised a tear at times. I think the whole album succeeds largely with the same sturm und drang emotional rawness this song embodies. Tell the truth, Cail: you object to the themes of charity and compassion rather than the song itself.

Not at all.

I think that it dates the song a bit though, and I think that it's a bit overbearing and.....dare I say....pretentious? It's still a very good song, and I agree that it's linked to "Us and Them".

But when I refer people to what I consider to be great PF songs, it's not one of the ones I recommend.

My experience of this song opposes yours; the contrast elicits superficial curiosity. That is, as someone that listened to the album heavily on release and has continued to listen to it periodically through the years, I used to like "On The Turning Away" significantly less than I do now, and I find that it now has much greater emotional impact. Perhaps it is because I have progressed to a milieu more in line with the songwriter than it was 25 years ago. The comparative meaning of this aesthetic shift vis a vis your own counter shift is imponderable and probably irrelevant.

So I won't ask you to confess to being Scrooge any longer. At least, not on this basis.

Since you continue to display your ignorance, let me take you to school Ex. I would almost guaranty that I give more time, goods and money (as a percentage of gross income) to charity than anyone else on this board. You can stuff the smarmy "Scrooge" comment up your ass until you choke on it.

My objection to the song is that it's ham-handedly written and preachy. The only thing that saves it from being out-and-out awful is the amazing guitar work.