Parents Accidentally Killing Child - Left Them In The Car

[Cail]

Father who slow-roasted his kid knew that he had a kid in his car and decided his phone calls were more important. You're making the judgment call that his very important phone call(s) were more important than the welfare of his son and/or that it was an understandable mistake. Yet you've interjected all sorts of your own bias and motive into my example (which is exactly why I used a gun, because I knew people wouldn't be able to let that slide).

Both kids are equally dead (one in an excruciatingly slow and agonizing way, the other nice & quick), both fathers are solely responsible, neither father intended for it to happen, but both fathers were negligent in their judgment.

Gun father got distracted and didn't take care of where his firearm was. Car father got distracted and didn't take care of where his son was.

You're telling me my example is worse?

[Fist and Faith]

Yes, imo, your example is worse. Cop made the decision to ignore gun safety. If you have a 5yo, don't put the gun down until you're putting it down in the proper, locked place. (And don't let the kids know where the key is.) Why? Because people do get distracted. It will happen, eventually, if you don't do it the right way. Cop chose to take chances. Figured it was ok to put the gun down, and hope to not get distracted.

The father who's kid died in the car did not decide to do something he knew was wrong. He wasn't taking any chances of any kind. He fucked up beyond any other kind of fucking up anybody can do. But not through any bad choice. Yes, it is his fault. It is only his fault. But there was no intent to harm ("I'm gonna kill this kid."), and there was no wrong decision ("I'm gonna do something that's known to be harmful, gambling that it won't be harmful this time.").

[Cail]

Yes, imo, your example is worse. Cop made the decision to ignore gun safety. If you have a 5yo, don't put the gun down until you're putting it down in the proper, locked place. (And don't let the kids know where the key is.) Why? Because people do get distracted. It will happen, eventually, if you don't do it the right way. Cop chose to take chances. Figured it was ok to put the gun down, and hope to not get distracted.

The father who's kid died in the car did not decide to do something he knew was wrong. He wasn't taking any chances of any kind. He fucked up beyond any other kind of fucking up anybody can do. But not through any bad choice. Yes, it is his fault. It is only his fault. But there was no intent to harm ("I'm gonna kill this kid."), and there was no wrong decision ("I'm gonna do something that's known to be harmful, gambling that it won't be harmful this time.").

If you're going to allow distraction in one case, then it's completely inconsistent not to allow it in the other.

Anything else is simply allowing your bias to override the obvious.

Edited to add - You keep talking about how one father "decided" something and the other didn't. You are interjecting that into the mix, as there was nothing in my example to suggest anything of the sort. Both parents allowed ("decided" if you prefer) themselves to be distracted by something that led to the death of their child. Both of them are equally culpable in the death of their children, no matter how unintentional it was, or how awful they felt after the fact. If one father deserves mercy, then they both do.

As far as I'm concerned, no one other than a very, very small handful of people (and those people generally don't drive themselves around) is so important that they need to be on the phone when they're driving - certainly not when their child is in the car with them. It is utterly inconceivable to me how you could "forget" to drop your kid off at daycare. To me, that guy is far more of a menace than my example, as he not only has no regard for his child's safety, he has no regard for the safety of anyone else on the road.

[rdhopeca]

Yes, imo, your example is worse. Cop made the decision to ignore gun safety. If you have a 5yo, don't put the gun down until you're putting it down in the proper, locked place. (And don't let the kids know where the key is.) Why? Because people do get distracted. It will happen, eventually, if you don't do it the right way. Cop chose to take chances. Figured it was ok to put the gun down, and hope to not get distracted.

The father who's kid died in the car did not decide to do something he knew was wrong. He wasn't taking any chances of any kind. He fucked up beyond any other kind of fucking up anybody can do. But not through any bad choice. Yes, it is his fault. It is only his fault. But there was no intent to harm ("I'm gonna kill this kid."), and there was no wrong decision ("I'm gonna do something that's known to be harmful, gambling that it won't be harmful this time.").

If you're going to allow distraction in one case, then it's completely inconsistent not to allow it in the other.

Anything else is simply allowing your bias to override the obvious.

So how would this apply in the recent plane crash in San Francisco?

1. Plane crashes
2. FD arrives, and distracted by the fire in an engine, sprays foam retardant everywhere to protect hundreds still inside the plane and trying to evacuate without checking to see if anyone is on the runway
3. Another truck arrives, drives through the foam, and accidentally runs over a survivor that they did not know had been ejected from the plane.

Who is going to stand trial?

[Cail]

Yes, imo, your example is worse. Cop made the decision to ignore gun safety. If you have a 5yo, don't put the gun down until you're putting it down in the proper, locked place. (And don't let the kids know where the key is.) Why? Because people do get distracted. It will happen, eventually, if you don't do it the right way. Cop chose to take chances. Figured it was ok to put the gun down, and hope to not get distracted.

The father who's kid died in the car did not decide to do something he knew was wrong. He wasn't taking any chances of any kind. He fucked up beyond any other kind of fucking up anybody can do. But not through any bad choice. Yes, it is his fault. It is only his fault. But there was no intent to harm ("I'm gonna kill this kid."), and there was no wrong decision ("I'm gonna do something that's known to be harmful, gambling that it won't be harmful this time.").

If you're going to allow distraction in one case, then it's completely inconsistent not to allow it in the other.

Anything else is simply allowing your bias to override the obvious.

So how would this apply in the recent plane crash in San Francisco?

1. Plane crashes
2. FD arrives, and distracted by the fire in an engine, sprays foam retardant everywhere to protect hundreds still inside the plane and trying to evacuate without checking to see if anyone is on the runway
3. Another truck arrives, drives through the foam, and accidentally runs over a survivor that they did not know had been ejected from the plane.

Who is going to stand trial?

Without having all the facts, it's impossible to say. Assuming that the survivor was completely obscured by the foam, I'm not sure that any criminal charges can be filed.

The difference here, of course, is that the SFFD isn't charged with being the primary care and guardian of anyone, nor are they expected to put the life of any one person (their child) ahead of all other concerns. It's a horrible situation, but the blame for that girl's death lies solely with the airline and the pilots.

[Rawedge Rim]

Yes, imo, your example is worse. Cop made the decision to ignore gun safety. If you have a 5yo, don't put the gun down until you're putting it down in the proper, locked place. (And don't let the kids know where the key is.) Why? Because people do get distracted. It will happen, eventually, if you don't do it the right way. Cop chose to take chances. Figured it was ok to put the gun down, and hope to not get distracted.

The father who's kid died in the car did not decide to do something he knew was wrong. He wasn't taking any chances of any kind. He fucked up beyond any other kind of fucking up anybody can do. But not through any bad choice. Yes, it is his fault. It is only his fault. But there was no intent to harm ("I'm gonna kill this kid."), and there was no wrong decision ("I'm gonna do something that's known to be harmful, gambling that it won't be harmful this time.").

If you're going to allow distraction in one case, then it's completely inconsistent not to allow it in the other.

Anything else is simply allowing your bias to override the obvious.

Edited to add - You keep talking about how one father "decided" something and the other didn't. You are interjecting that into the mix, as there was nothing in my example to suggest anything of the sort. Both parents allowed ("decided" if you prefer) themselves to be distracted by something that led to the death of their child. Both of them are equally culpable in the death of their children, no matter how unintentional it was, or how awful they felt after the fact. If one father deserves mercy, then they both do.

As far as I'm concerned, no one other than a very, very small handful of people (and those people generally don't drive themselves around) is so important that they need to be on the phone when they're driving - certainly not when their child is in the car with them. It is utterly inconceivable to me how you could "forget" to drop your kid off at daycare. To me, that guy is far more of a menace than my example, as he not only has no regard for his child's safety, he has no regard for the safety of anyone else on the road.

and you would be utterly wrong. Major difference in willful negligence (I'll just drop this rock off a tall building cause it looks ugly up here) and a mental lapse. Maybe your life is simpler and there are less issues to take up your concentration. The guy is transporting a baby to child care. The phone rings and it's his wife asking him to pick up some milk on his way home after work. Traffic is awful, and some jerk just cut him off before his exit. Meanwhile he's thinking about what his job entails that day, and there is an accident between him and where he needs to be. He arrives at work and heads on in. Three hours later he realizes he didn't drop the baby off, and it's been in the car the whole time.

What mental difference is there between this scenario and perhaps 5 pounds of fresh shrimp left in the back seat.?

And of course the right answer is "none". You can say he should of, he could of, it's unconscinable, etc., but in the end, the mental process's, or lack thereof are identical. And it happens every day. Fortunately, the vast majority of the time, it isn't as tragic as a baby dying.

[Fist and Faith]

Edited to add - You keep talking about how one father "decided" something and the other didn't. You are interjecting that into the mix, as there was nothing in my example to suggest anything of the sort.

Unless putting the gun down where he did was an involuntary action, it was a decision. I don't know how it could be called an involuntary action. Perhaps putting it where he did was such a habit that it might be considered an involuntary action? In which case he had developed a strong habit of doing something that is known to have lead to the deaths of many children, and goes against what he may have been taught and trained to do. He should have developed the strong habit of locking it away before doing anything else when he got home. He chose not to. He chose the easier way of dealing with the gun.

[Cail]

Edited to add - You keep talking about how one father "decided" something and the other didn't. You are interjecting that into the mix, as there was nothing in my example to suggest anything of the sort.

Unless putting the gun down where he did was an involuntary action, it was a decision. I don't know how it could be called an involuntary action. Perhaps putting it where he did was such a habit that it might be considered an involuntary action? In which case he had developed a strong habit of doing something that is known to have lead to the deaths of many children, and goes against what he may have been taught and trained to do. He should have developed the strong habit of locking it away before doing anything else when he got home. He chose not to. He chose the easier way of dealing with the gun.

You're making stuff up now, so I'm done with this....."Involuntary action"? He was distracted, that's all. That's much less irresponsible than completely forgetting to drop your child off at daycare because you're a worthless, self-absorbed fuck. I've been somewhat politic about this, but the fact of the matter is that this father doesn't deserve the least little bit of sympathy. His brain-dead selfishness caused the death of his son. This was no accident, even though it wasn't intentional. It's a symptom of the rampant self-centeredness of modern society. I hope he suffers mightily through the rest of his miserable life.

People like this worthless fuck have no business being parents.

[Fist and Faith]

And I've refocused things through the lens of my own biases??

Anyway, I've made nothing up. You're the one who gave us the scenario. The cop came in, put his gun down, answered the phone, and went to the car. He did not come in, put the gun where his kid could not get to it, and let the phone go to voicemail. Which part did I make up? Which part was not his decision? Which part tells us that his son comes before his gun and phone? He brought a gun into the house with his 5yo son, and he got distracted? I don't know how you can be fine with this guy, regardless of the story of the op. "He was distracted, that's all."??

And have no fear, the father in the news story will, indeed, suffer mightily through the rest of his miserable life. And the tortures you so badly want him to get, if they should come, won't be a drop in the bucket compared to what he'll do to himself.

However, enough's enough. I've made my position on the news story, as well as your scenario, as clearly as I can. I didn't expect to change any minds. I was just backing up rdhopeca's response to Hashi's "this one is not a debate" comment. It obviously is. And it ended the way the overwhelming majority of debates end.

*exit, stage left*

[Cail]

Never made any bones about my biases. Cause the death of a child, burn in hell. If this father had cared more about his child and less about his phone, his kid would still be alive. To be clear, I have no sympathy for the father in my example either, just not for the reasons you made up.

See you in another few months when you feel like trolling through here.

[sgt.null]

fist - I call bullshit. the suffering father will punish himself enough? then let every child rapist who says he's sorry out right now. surely they are torturing themselves enough, right?

and bravo to Cail for using the gun. he was correct, liberal attitudes about guns being so dangerous trump a parent neglecting their child - to the point of death.

be damned sure that if a third party, say a school bus driver let a kid die in this way the media would be screaming for a guilty verdict. but what if the bus driver was distracted, say by thirty other kids and a cell phone.

sometimes people just sicken me. we let child murderers go free because of distraction?

Julie and I tried to have a kid together. she had many miscarriages and nearly bled to death the last time, she had to have a complete hysterectomy. she nearly didn't recover from the operation. I waited hours to find out she was going to pull through.

we went through all of that and these pieces of shit just "forget" their kids in the car? they let them slow bake? to the point one victim pulled out all their hair? I defy anyone feeling sympathy for these garbage parents to go ahead and yank out just one tuft of hair. I'll wait while you finish that task....

those kids screamed for their parents to help them, to make the pain stop hurting. just like their parents saved them from monsters in the toilet or in the closet. or scraped knees or a flu induced fever. or an earache. or God forbid a broken arm or a dogbite that breaks through the skin.

so lets make this clear because I really don't want to get banned. but I need to use a bad word here.

why would any sane, rational human being believe that these murderers deserve an ounce of sympathy? f*** them. in these cases I really believe in an eye for eye. but I felt that 40 years was being compassionate.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

fist - I call bullshit. the suffering father will punish himself enough? then let every child rapist who says he's sorry out right now. surely they are torturing themselves enough, right?

and bravo to Cail for using the gun. he was correct, liberal attitudes about guns being so dangerous trump a parent neglecting their child - to the point of death.

be damned sure that if a third party, say a school bus driver let a kid die in this way the media would be screaming for a guilty verdict. but what if the bus driver was distracted, say by thirty other kids and a cell phone.

sometimes people just sicken me. we let child murderers go free because of distraction?

Julie and I tried to have a kid together. she had many miscarriages and nearly bled to death the last time, she had to have a complete hysterectomy. she nearly didn't recover from the operation. I waited hours to find out she was going to pull through.

we went through all of that and these pieces of shit just "forget" their kids in the car? they let them slow bake? to the point one victim pulled out all their hair? I defy anyone feeling sympathy for these garbage parents to go ahead and yank out just one tuft of hair. I'll wait while you finish that task....

those kids screamed for their parents to help them, to make the pain stop hurting. just like their parents saved them from monsters in the toilet or in the closet. or scraped knees or a flu induced fever. or an earache. or God forbid a broken arm or a dogbite that breaks through the skin.

so lets make this clear because I really don't want to get banned. but I need to use a bad word here.

why would any sane, rational human being believe that these murderers deserve an ounce of sympathy? f*** them. in these cases I really believe in an eye for eye. but I felt that 40 years was being compassionate.

I was going to second Cail's statements above until I read Sarge's. I second his statements. My wife had several miscarriages during her first marriage so she well knows that particular kind of pain and that is why we have no sympathy for people who forget their kids in a hot car. There is no excuse, period.

[Cail]

Here we go again......

Tragic accident or murder in hot-car toddler death?

What sounded like the most tragic of accidents -- a dad absentmindedly leaving his toddler in the car on a scorching Georgia day -- is now being treated by police as a horrific, and intentional, crime.

New details from a Cobb County criminal warrant allege that Justin Ross Harris, 33, placed his son, 22-month old Cooper, into a Hyundai Tucson after eating at a fast-food restaurant. He then drove to his workplace a half-mile away, according to the warrant.

Harris returned to the car during his lunch break, opening the driver's side door "to place an object into the vehicle," the warrant states.

The boy was in a rear-facing car seat in the center of the Tucson's back seat, the warrant says.

Later that afternoon on June 18, around 4:16, Harris left his workplace near Vinings outside Atlanta. Minutes later, he pulled into a shopping center asking for assistance with the toddler, who had been in the car for about seven hours at that point, the warrant says.

The average temperature was about 80 degrees that day, but the mercury topped 92 at the hottest point in the day. Police say the temperature was 88 degrees when the child was pronounced dead at the scene.

At first, it seemed like a mistake. Witness Dale Hamilton told CNN affiliate WSB-TV that an emotional Harris pulled into the shopping center after purportedly realizing he had forgotten to drop Cooper off at day care at 8:30 a.m.

"Laid his son on the ground, started doing CPR trying to resuscitate him. Apparently the child wasn't responding," Hamilton told the station.

Police saw a crowd, and when officers began to investigate, they saw the child on the ground. Once it became clear that Cooper was dead, Harris had to be physically restrained, police said.

"There were a number of witnesses -- passers-by in the area who observed basically the father in a very distressed moment," said Sgt. Dana Pierce of the Cobb County police.
Added Hamilton, "He kept saying, 'What have I done? What have I done?' And that's all that I could ascertain that he was saying."

Police seemed sympathetic at first, and Pierce told media that Harris apparently forgot the child was in the back of the vehicle while he was at work.

When Harris was charged with felony murder and child cruelty, there was vigorous debate over whether the heartbroken father should be punished. Surely, he had suffered enough, many thought.

Erin Krans of Marietta started a change.org petition asking Cobb District Attorney Vic Reynolds to drop the charges. It garnered hundreds of signatures.

"This could happen to anyone. Anyone. Charging a grieving father is abusive," wrote Susannah Waldron of Universal City, Texas.

Another signatory, Molly Greenwood of Centerville, Ohio, wrote, "I think the accident alone is enough punishment for the man. I cannot imagine."

But the story of the hapless father making an innocent mistake quickly changed.

"Within moments of the first responders getting to the scene and doing their job and questions began to be asked about the moments that led up to their arrival at the scene, some of those answers were not making sense to the first responders," Pierce said.

"I've been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather."

Last week, Harris pleaded not guilty to felony murder and child cruelty charges. He's being held without bond at the Cobb County Jail and is scheduled to appear before a county judge July 3.

Cooper's mother, Leanna Harris, told CNN last week that she's been advised not to discuss the case with the media.

"We have been in communication with the mother throughout the investigation. At this time, I'm not at liberty to discuss her involvement. That's a part of the case our detectives are working on," Pierce said.

Cobb County Medical Operations Manager Mike Gerhard confirmed that the autopsy of the child is complete, but the boy's manner of death has not been released.

Repeated calls to the defendant's attorney have not been returned, and a woman answering the phone at H. Maddox Kilgore's office said the lawyer would not be commenting at this time.

Cooper Harris' funeral will be Saturday at the University Church of Christ in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The service is open to the public.

[Rawedge Rim]

Here we go again......

Tragic accident or murder in hot-car toddler death?

What sounded like the most tragic of accidents -- a dad absentmindedly leaving his toddler in the car on a scorching Georgia day -- is now being treated by police as a horrific, and intentional, crime.

New details from a Cobb County criminal warrant allege that Justin Ross Harris, 33, placed his son, 22-month old Cooper, into a Hyundai Tucson after eating at a fast-food restaurant. He then drove to his workplace a half-mile away, according to the warrant.

Harris returned to the car during his lunch break, opening the driver's side door "to place an object into the vehicle," the warrant states.

The boy was in a rear-facing car seat in the center of the Tucson's back seat, the warrant says.

Later that afternoon on June 18, around 4:16, Harris left his workplace near Vinings outside Atlanta. Minutes later, he pulled into a shopping center asking for assistance with the toddler, who had been in the car for about seven hours at that point, the warrant says.

The average temperature was about 80 degrees that day, but the mercury topped 92 at the hottest point in the day. Police say the temperature was 88 degrees when the child was pronounced dead at the scene.

At first, it seemed like a mistake. Witness Dale Hamilton told CNN affiliate WSB-TV that an emotional Harris pulled into the shopping center after purportedly realizing he had forgotten to drop Cooper off at day care at 8:30 a.m.

"Laid his son on the ground, started doing CPR trying to resuscitate him. Apparently the child wasn't responding," Hamilton told the station.

Police saw a crowd, and when officers began to investigate, they saw the child on the ground. Once it became clear that Cooper was dead, Harris had to be physically restrained, police said.

"There were a number of witnesses -- passers-by in the area who observed basically the father in a very distressed moment," said Sgt. Dana Pierce of the Cobb County police.
Added Hamilton, "He kept saying, 'What have I done? What have I done?' And that's all that I could ascertain that he was saying."

Police seemed sympathetic at first, and Pierce told media that Harris apparently forgot the child was in the back of the vehicle while he was at work.

When Harris was charged with felony murder and child cruelty, there was vigorous debate over whether the heartbroken father should be punished. Surely, he had suffered enough, many thought.

Erin Krans of Marietta started a change.org petition asking Cobb District Attorney Vic Reynolds to drop the charges. It garnered hundreds of signatures.

"This could happen to anyone. Anyone. Charging a grieving father is abusive," wrote Susannah Waldron of Universal City, Texas.

Another signatory, Molly Greenwood of Centerville, Ohio, wrote, "I think the accident alone is enough punishment for the man. I cannot imagine."

But the story of the hapless father making an innocent mistake quickly changed.

"Within moments of the first responders getting to the scene and doing their job and questions began to be asked about the moments that led up to their arrival at the scene, some of those answers were not making sense to the first responders," Pierce said.

"I've been in law enforcement for 34 years. What I know about this case shocks my conscience as a police officer, a father and a grandfather."

Last week, Harris pleaded not guilty to felony murder and child cruelty charges. He's being held without bond at the Cobb County Jail and is scheduled to appear before a county judge July 3.

Cooper's mother, Leanna Harris, told CNN last week that she's been advised not to discuss the case with the media.

"We have been in communication with the mother throughout the investigation. At this time, I'm not at liberty to discuss her involvement. That's a part of the case our detectives are working on," Pierce said.

Cobb County Medical Operations Manager Mike Gerhard confirmed that the autopsy of the child is complete, but the boy's manner of death has not been released.

Repeated calls to the defendant's attorney have not been returned, and a woman answering the phone at H. Maddox Kilgore's office said the lawyer would not be commenting at this time.

Cooper Harris' funeral will be Saturday at the University Church of Christ in Tuscaloosa, Alabama. The service is open to the public.

Heard about this one, and I'm really wondering what else is going on in this case. The Police are suspicious, and to go public this way seems to me to indicate that it may be more than mere suspicion that Dad just made a mental error.

[Avatar]

It's gotta be a hell of a thing to prove though. And no info on why they think it might be murder.

--A

[sgt.null]

Julie read that the dad had googled how long it would take for an animal to die in a hot car. It was from his work computer.

In this case an eye for an eye should apply. Lock the bastard in a hot car and let him bake.

[TheFallen]

I'm not going to weigh in here on any culpability vs accident issues. I'm just minded to share a personal experience which freaks me out to this day whenever I think about it. Maybe it'll serve as a cautionary tale...

When my much-loved only daughter was coming on 3 years old, I was driving with her in my car (she in her child seat in the back). It was a hot summer's day - I'd guess high 80s. I parked right outside the local newsagent, cracked all 4 windows open an inch and a half and zipped in to pick up a paper - okay there was a slight queue inside but the whole thing couldn't have taken me more than five minutes max. When I got back to the car, it was baking hot inside and my daughter was clearly suffering. Many cuddles, ice creams and cold drinks later, I still felt absolutely terrible, shaken to the core and rightly so, though fortunately no harm was done.

In hindsight, my negligence was manifold - I should never have left her unattended in a car, for all that the car was parked safely right outside the door of the newsagent within my field of vision at all times and I was only going to be gone two minutes (or so I thought... it turned out to be five). I especially shouldn't have left her in my car on a summer's day. I felt with some considerable justification like the world's worst parent and had nightmares for months afterwards - and probably (partly) explains why ever since I've been so over-protective towards her, much to her ongoing now 19 year old annoyance.

The point is - it's absolutely frightening how fast the temperature rockets in a parked car under the sun. Please, PLEASE everyone with kids (or pets for that matter) bear this in mind - literally a couple of minutes after the aircon's gone off, the internal temperature can easily rocket by up to 30 degrees F and will keep on going.

VEHICLE HEAT STUDY
•Study of temperature rise in enclosed cars on 16 dates between May 16 and Aug. 8, 2002.
•Ambient temperature were between 72 and 96 degrees F.
•Dark Blue mid-side sedan with medium grey interior
•Also tested with windows “cracked”



STUDY CONCLUSIONS

• Average elapsed time and temperature rise
•10 minutes ~ 19 deg F
•20 minutes ~ 29 deg F
•30 minutes ~ 34 deg F
•60 minutes ~ 43 deg F
•1 to 2 hours ~ 45-50 deg F

•“Cracking” the windows had little effect
•Vehicle interior color probably biggest factor

[Hashi Lebwohl]

I need to find and link a recent video where a vet shut himself into a car on a warm day with the windows cracked down about an inch like many people do for dogs or, from time to time, children. It took only 10 minutes for him to realize that this probably wasn't the best idea but he stuck it out. After the temperature topped out at 113F/45C he was completely drenched in sweat but he still had 10 minutes left to go.

Lock the bastard in a hot car and let him bake.

My wife said exactly the same thing last night.

[Holsety]

www.cnn.com/2014/07/03/justice/georgia- ... ler-death/

Among the details police have released is that Harris and his wife, Leanna, told them they conducted Internet searches on how hot a car needed to be to kill a child. Stoddard testified Thursday that Ross Harris had visited a Reddit page called "child-free" and read four articles. He also did an Internet search on how to survive in prison, Stoddard said.

Also, five days before Cooper died, Ross Harris twice viewed a sort of homemade public service announcement in which a veterinarian demonstrates on video the dangers of leaving someone or something inside a hot car.

Leanna Harris told police that she had recently seen a story on a state initiative aimed at reminding people not to leave children in cars and that it was a fear of hers, Stoddard said.

Ross Harris "stated that he recently researched, through the Internet, child deaths inside vehicles and what temperature it needs to be for that to occur," police said, adding that Harris told investigators "he was fearful that this could happen."

I definitely wasn't expecting an angle like this in the case, but here it is. Personally I find it somewhat hard to believe that someone fearful of this kind of circumstance happening would research it, then forget about the danger 5 days later. Maybe I'm just neurotic, though.

[rdhopeca]

I realize that I started this thread, but in this case I don't buy the story... Way too many fishy details. Sounds like it was intentional to me much as I hate to say it.