Kevin's Watch

amanibhavam wrote:I haven't read BE (I read Dianetics, though, in the dim past of my silly youth), I only saw the film Battlefield Earth which is imho one of the Worst Films Ever Made.

Battlefield Earth is a great novel, but has nothing to do with Dianetics, for which L. Ron Hubbard seems to be most remembered.

I was really psyched when BE was made into a movie, and the movie was one of my biggest cinematic disappointments. It was really horrible.

Tom

No spoilers please, 'cause I'm only about 100 pages into "Forbidden Knowledge".

But with what I've read so far, I've gotta tell you, I'm not impressed. It's very sadistic, and not really sci-fi. I'm hoping it improves, but I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to put it down.

Cail wrote:No spoilers please, 'cause I'm only about 100 pages into "Forbidden Knowledge".

But with what I've read so far, I've gotta tell you, I'm not impressed. It's very sadistic, and not really sci-fi. I'm hoping it improves, but I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to put it down.

Stick with it.... after a while you begin to learn all the politics and get into the characters more.

You've already read The Real Story? If you're not hooked by now, this might not be your cup of tea. I wince at the sadism and rape, but got addicted to finding out how the story would end and what would happen to the characters.

Tom

Cail wrote:No spoilers please, 'cause I'm only about 100 pages into "Forbidden Knowledge".

But with what I've read so far, I've gotta tell you, I'm not impressed. It's very sadistic, and not really sci-fi. I'm hoping it improves, but I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to put it down.

Everything that happens in a Donaldson story happens for a reason. Without all the violence and rape and other things the story would not be a story at all.

Calling it sadistic implies that it's needless violence. It's not.

No, couched in the context of what I've read so far, it is incredibly sadistic. It may turn out that it's necessary to the story (as Lena's rape was), but that doesn't make it any easier to stomach.

Cail - the violence in the series does not let up, and I agree that it's hard to stomach. I posted earlier that my belief is that SRD deliberately set out to reinvent some of the standard cliches of "space opera". Thematically, he does this as well - a strong undercurrent in the books is that advancement in technology does not equate to advancement in morality; indeed, it gives certain personalities free rein to impose their will and power over over others. Throughout the series Morn struggles to maintain her own humanity in the face of this, and provides a counterbalance (and some much needed optimism) to a very bleak story. The violence is a harsh but necessary component of the story, IMHO. It's as relevant to SRD's tale as the gore was in "Saving Private Ryan".

Eh, we'll see.

To be honest, there's a lot I didn't like about the series. There are some great plot twists, and some memorable scenes, but I reread it last year and found that it didn't hold up well a second time. For me, part of that was the violence - it's shock value was effective the first time, but my reaction the second time around was "yuck, here comes that scene..." I'd encourage you to continue, if for no other reason than to see a much darker side of SRD.

The one thing (so far) that impresses me is that the writing style is so much different than from the Chrons.

That was one of the things I liked; SRD's style matches the grim themes of the book. Reminded me of James Ellroy. You'll notice right away that SRD tends to repeat the story's developments by relating the same events through the points-of-view of different characters; I found this to be a distraction.

Cail wrote:No spoilers please, 'cause I'm only about 100 pages into "Forbidden Knowledge".

But with what I've read so far, I've gotta tell you, I'm not impressed. It's very sadistic, and not really sci-fi. I'm hoping it improves, but I'm almost at the point where I'm ready to put it down.

When the Amnion turn up it becomes exciting. Fascinating,

I'd agree with that. The human/Amnion conflict is great. SRD's depiction of how battles in space would really be fought is really cool, much different than how other SF writers I've read portray space combat. The technology and physics are for the most part realistic extrapolations of what we know and theorize today.

The GAP books sadistic...not really sci-fi...

Shocking. Is life sadistic, is nature sadistic, the eating of flesh sadistic, life is brutal, life is sometimes revolting, sometimes unfair.

The GAP books are not fantasy, not the world of ‘comfort zone’ pixies and elves where all our human emotions are ignored. The GAP revels in extremes of human emotion, think of the 2nd world war, think of atrocities going on right now in the world, do we bury our heads in the sand and say ‘it’s not real, it’s not fluffy and warm’, no we do not.


The GAP is hard and brutal, it’s pure SCI-FI, it’s for grown ups who live life on the edge!!! If you can’t stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

The GAP is the ultimate in page turners, at times it’s like DALLAS on LSD mixed in with a triple dose of tension pills.

I am.

wow, i didnt find anything sadistic in the books at all..nothin really hard to stomach either

What I loved about the Gap Cycle was the constant change of position each character went through,

Spoiler

the classic roles of victim, villain and hero, constantly changing for nearly every character in the story.

Warmark Jay wrote:That was one of the things I liked; SRD's style matches the grim themes of the book. Reminded me of James Ellroy. You'll notice right away that SRD tends to repeat the story's developments by relating the same events through the points-of-view of different characters; I found this to be a distraction.

I read a (admittedly rather negative) review of the Gap series in which the reviewer suggested that if you read the entire series just sticking to one character you would still be able to follow the story, but you'd finish sooner and save yourself a lot of the hardship.

I read a (admittedly rather negative) review of the Gap series in which the reviewer suggested that if you read the entire series just sticking to one character you would still be able to follow the story, but you'd finish sooner and save yourself a lot of the hardship.

I'd agree with that. Rehashing events from the POV of different characters serves its purpose in the series some of the time (as when Hashi tries to make sense of events). Granted, there are a lot of major characters, but the story seems to bog down when we get Nick's, Morn's, Angus', Davies', etc. take on the same developments.

I haven't read many reviews of the series, other than readers' reviews at Amazon, etc. Something tells me that the bulk of "real" reviews were not that kind to SRD...

Ahh The Gap! After reading hundreds of sci-fi books and including my forever addiction to Star Trek I would have to rank the Gap series up there with the best. It would be nearly impossible for me to pick a favorite. I've read many of the books listed in this forum and most are well worth reading. I must read the Neverness series after reading your reviews, it sounds intriguing. One book I've always liked was A World Out Of Time by Larry Niven, one of the earliest sci fi I've read. Another notable and recent series was the Area 51 series by Greg Donegan. I wouldn't class it with The Gap series but it's worth a read. Anyone else know of other series worthy of 'the Best". Let me know.

I'd put Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series as one of the best, if not the best, series around. As far as single books or short stories are concerned, it's tough to beat Philip K. Dick.

Cail wrote:I'd put Philip Jose Farmer's Riverworld series as one of the best, if not the best, series around. As far as single books or short stories are concerned, it's tough to beat Philip K. Dick.

Ok let me get a pen ...