Kevin's Watch

Totally AWESOME post Z

Now Ill give sams and lukes some more thought and return

Lazy Luke wrote: Conciousness has to be more than it's constituent parts, ie, the brain, the body, the soul. So if neurons were for example like sparks, it's the source of the spark, the potential to store electrical charge that constitutes consciousness. The physical and natural world we live in has that capability.

Heh...yea, well, that's a good summary of what we're talking about.

I'd need to see expansion, but what you say here SEEMS to be similar/containable/reconcilable with my main idea-stream.

Though ALL of us are roughly on the same side compared to some views---the views that say consciousness isn't really a thing, and if it IS a thing it's an illusory thing [[Not I think therefore I am, but "some thing that thinks it "is" also "thinks" it is "i," thinks it thinks therefore it thinks it ams...but really it's Sp-ams, meaningless, non-causal, rich Nigerian princes of the universe...totally imaginary.]]

Aside---it's a little weird/funny to me that Z thinks it's inexplicable/beyond 'bottom-up" when he's totally about bottom-up superiority in so many other realms.

I hadn't read through the whole thread, just the original post and Zarathustra's post. And of course, sam's comments on memory.

The idea I had was fueled by an observation I made on weather conditions over the past few weeks, that go something like this ...

The weather over the past few weeks began with a very warm and sunny spell. This was good because it felt like the grip of winter had finally gone. Then the price was a few days of heavy rain. Then nothing much to talk about. Then wham!
El Scorchio!
... the trees as far as the eye can see are now bursting into a bright green.

What felt odd was the suddeness of it. The thickness of the canopies didn't seem to have that slow transition I remember as a child.
Why? Do we move through time differantly in adulthood as when we were very young?
Are we just too busy as adults to take the time to notice such things as April turning into May.

I don't know.
Perhaps the world is normal and it's me that's slightly out of phase. Or, perhaps the world isn't normal and somehow we've damaged the natural rythm of the seasons through pollution, ozone depletion, general mismanagement, and essesentially we're allready going to hell in a basket, (or down the plughole in Peter's bathtub).

Whichever, might as well singalong and enjoy the seasons as best as. Ram on ... dobe dobe dobe do ... give your he-art to somebo-dy, sooooooon, right away ... right away ...

Broth wrote:

Lazy Luke wrote: Conciousness has to be more than it's constituent parts, ie, the brain, the body, the soul. So if neurons were for example like sparks, it's the source of the spark, the potential to store electrical charge that constitutes consciousness. The physical and natural world we live in has that capability.

Heh...yea, well, that's a good summary of what we're talking about.

I'd need to see expansion, but what you say here SEEMS to be similar/containable/reconcilable with my main idea-stream.

Though ALL of us are roughly on the same side compared to some views---the views that say consciousness isn't really a thing, and if it IS a thing it's an illusory thing [[Not I think therefore I am, but "some thing that thinks it "is" also "thinks" it is "i," thinks it thinks therefore it thinks it ams...but really it's Sp-ams, meaningless, non-causal, rich Nigerian princes of the universe...totally imaginary.]]

Aside---it's a little weird/funny to me that Z thinks it's inexplicable/beyond 'bottom-up" when he's totally about bottom-up superiority in so many other realms.

Pffft Broth

Lazy Luke wrote:I hadn't read through the whole thread, just the original post and Zarathustra's post. And of course, sam's comments on memory.

The idea I had was fueled by an observation I made on weather conditions over the past few weeks, that go something like this ...

The weather over the past few weeks began with a very warm and sunny spell. This was good because it felt like the grip of winter had finally gone. Then the price was a few days of heavy rain. Then nothing much to talk about. Then wham!
El Scorchio!
... the trees as far as the eye can see are now bursting into a bright green.

What felt odd was the suddeness of it. The thickness of the canopies didn't seem to have that slow transition I remember as a child.
Why? Do we move through time differantly in adulthood as when we were very young?
Are we just too busy as adults to take the time to notice such things as April turning into May.

I don't know.
Perhaps the world is normal and it's me that's slightly out of phase. Or, perhaps the world isn't normal and somehow we've damaged the natural rythm of the seasons through pollution, ozone depletion, general mismanagement, and essesentially we're allready going to hell in a basket, (or down the plughole in Peter's bathtub).

Whichever, might as well singalong and enjoy the seasons as best as. Ram on ... dobe dobe dobe do ... give your he-art to somebo-dy, sooooooon, right away ... right away ...

Interesting points Lazy ..

I think it more likely that your perception of time is changed than time itself has changed. I think there are times in our lives where what occurs around us is important to us and we take note.

However, I think all those things that could affect seasonal change are affecting seasonal changes.

I think as we get older we perceive time as quickening or shortening. I think it more a reflection of where you are in life and what youre doing. Since moving to.a rural location and connecting more with non human living things and my habitat .. time seems slower .. than when I lived and worked in high density urban environments.

.. our conscious life experience are absolutely subjective.

Lazy Luke wrote:Do we move through time differantly in adulthood as when we were very young?

Most definitely. It's all in proportion to how much time you have left. When you're young, each hour / day / week is only a small fraction of the time stretching ahead of us.

The older we get, the bigger a percentage of remaining time each day etc. represents.

--A

Time moving slower governed by environment, and time stretching ahead of us dependent on our age and state of mind. So whichever way, time is still a force of entropy and the ultimate killer of us all.

Lately I've been thinking about Tolkien and Time: Sauron and how it relates to the planet Saturn with its many coulored rings. The age of a tree measured in rings. And the One Ring, captured like a pebble dropped in a pool of still water.

I wonder about Donaldson's One Tree, and how that relates to his preception of personal growth and life and health. And the wild magic that destroys peace and tears apart law.

Which is more scary? Facing old age, gradual deterioration and death - or to believe the impossible dream of magic and life and health.

I prefer believing in the impossible dream of magic and health but .. I think words like impossible are subjective in this regard .. I think science has demonstrate that much of what was once thought impossible is now probable.

I prefer to focus on living and living fully whatever time remains and in a manner that is within my capacity to do so.

Skyweir wrote:I prefer to focus on living and living fully whatever time remains and in a manner that is within my capacity to do so.

A few weeks ago I received a letter giving me my retirement date. I was genuinely knocked sidewards. For the longest time I believed I might be getting younger. Now the government tells me I'm not only getting older but in truth haven't a great deal of time left to go. Jings!

So I guess things like magic rings and longevity are becoming more and more fascinating to me. And I suppose the logic of it is, that if Tolkien knew how to circumvent death wouldn't he still be alive. <sigh>

Skyweir wrote:I think science has demonstrate that much of what was once thought impossible is now probable.

True, but almost certainly not in time to do you and I any good.

--A

Lazy Luke wrote:

Skyweir wrote:I prefer to focus on living and living fully whatever time remains and in a manner that is within my capacity to do so.

A few weeks ago I received a letter giving me my retirement date. I was genuinely knocked sidewards. For the longest time I believed I might be getting younger. Now the government tells me I'm not only getting older but in truth haven't a great deal of time left to go. Jings!

So I guess things like magic rings and longevity are becoming more and more fascinating to me. And I suppose the logic of it is, that if Tolkien knew how to circumvent death wouldn't he still be alive. <sigh>

Lukey

I totally get that ... I was affronted when I was offered a severance package. They said it was offered in gratitude for my service, and they wanted to give me this opportunity. I only felt hurt .. that theyd want to put ME out to pasture after all Id given .. but when I got home my husband said are you mad Thats awesome And yeah .. turns out this was.

It was my pride that made my leaving hard. Once I saw the benefits, I accepted my exit.

I love this new chapter .. Ive never lived like I do now. Retirement is not your end .. its your beginning. I am healthier, Im doing what I love, caring for animals, its literally the best chapter of my life. It can be yours ..

Avatar wrote:

Skyweir wrote:I think science has demonstrate that much of what was once thought impossible is now probable.

True, but almost certainly not in time to do you and I any good.

--A

I wouldn't be too sure of that.
If I keep up with my dad, who is still alive, I've got at least 25 more years...if I keep up with his brother, still alive, I've got 33...and that's the MEN...if I keep up with the women, I've got 35+ and counting.
And you ain't that much older than me, if at all. [[and I had the smoking thing, as apparently you did---as did my dad, his brother, my mom, my grands....]
Shit is COMING. And a lot of it isn't expensive...unless people MAKE it expensive...but don't get me started on the Hep C cure. Those patent holding fuckers are murdering people for no reason AND ripping off the relatively few treated people...grr...wrong thread...grr...

I agree. No one can know the length of time they have .. I think there needs to be a refocus on living.

You could get hit by a bus tomorrow.. ... well not me .. you I live in the country where seeing a bus is unlikely ever But you city dwellers.. your chances of death by traffic are much higher

I love rural life .. I tell ya if you want to LIVE get your asses relocated. The air is better, the food is better, you are 100 percent more active and outdoors. I tell ya its fucking awesome You want to turn back time .. live where time moves slower

Yes not literally ..

Haha, if I keep up with the majority of my family, I have maybe 15.

Not that I intend to, I plan to live forever (or die trying), and it's certainly not anything I worry about.

But there are revolutionary tech solutions available right now, but I still can't walk into the doctor or wherever and get one.

Until things are publicly available and affordable, they might not as well exist for the vast majority of people.

--A

Skyweir wrote: I tell ya its fucking awesome

Yea....no.
I grew up in a town with more cows than people, a cornfield back yard, tossing bales for summer jobs, fishing season was out my door, take a right and walk 5 minutes, hunting was hang a looie and walk 15 minutes.
It's a nice place to visit---last few years I've been back to fishing some, and I love me some hiking and camping...
Seriously thinking of putting in a smallish veggie garden this weekend...

But no...I'll keep it as a little hobby, rural tourist, weekend farmier.

Getting your hands in the dirt and growing shit is good for you, its therapeutic and good for your physical health also.

Just getting outside and working in the garden is somehow good for a human

Broth .. it certainly does it for me. Probably has a time of life relevance. If youre young and still needing salaried work, its less viable living in the country. Youve gotta live where the work is.. also its not your time of life. Also, its a quiet lifestyle from the perspective of limited nightlife lol .. we have a pub and a few eateries No cinema, one small store.

Plus weve done humans .. so dont miss .. lots of them everywhere.

Skyweir wrote:Isnt it just functionality of the organism. We open our eyes and see light, the pupils adapt accordingly.. physically by changing the aperture. We dont think it consciously it just happens .. its how we as an organism is wired.

Indeed. We breathe. I don't need to think about breathing in order to do so.

Damelon wrote:

Skyweir wrote:Isnt it just functionality of the organism. We open our eyes and see light, the pupils adapt accordingly.. physically by changing the aperture. We dont think it consciously it just happens .. its how we as an organism is wired.

Indeed. We breathe. I don't need to think about breathing in order to do so.

And yet we can take our breath under conscious control. We can hold it, speed it up, slow it down, or just witness ourselves in the moment of breathing, meditating on it.

Zarathustra wrote:

Damelon wrote:

Skyweir wrote:Isnt it just functionality of the organism. We open our eyes and see light, the pupils adapt accordingly.. physically by changing the aperture. We dont think it consciously it just happens .. its how we as an organism is wired.

Indeed. We breathe. I don't need to think about breathing in order to do so.

And yet we can take our breath under conscious control. We can hold it, speed it up, slow it down, or just witness ourselves in the moment of breathing, meditating on it.

Indeed, and much more than that.
For instance, there's a fair amount of evidence that one can get some measurable, physical results of exercise simply by visualizing yourself doing the exercise...you can literally make yourself stronger by IMAGINING lifting weights/doing push-ups, whatever. Not as effective as actual exercise, though amazing that it happens at all.
And I could list dozens of measurable bodily effects achieved by similar mental activity...things proven, replicated.
[fighting cancer. Or...anyone familiar with Wheel of Time, how the Aiel didn't sweat? Yea, that's a brain trick, a real thing, I can sometimes do it, when I'm in the zone...if I worked at it, it would eventually become automatic/innate. It is such for several folk I know.]
And sometimes I think, for some of those things at least, that the main reason they're not as fully effective, or nearly so, is because we can't fully envision all the functions/activities/efforts involved.
Or, maybe with enough practice, we COULD envision the entirety---but that would probably require as much or more effort than just doing the damn exercise. [[more, I think, because your muscles and bones are MEANT to do a push-up or dance or whatever---they're made for it. Your brain isn't meant to do all that in conscious awareness...consciousness has other things to do]]

Seriously you can literally benefit .. get stronger by imagining or visualising yourself weightlifting

How does that work then

This and curing oneself

Seems a fanciful notion .. then IF that IS true .. then that might explain how being in harmony with the environment is therapeutic .. how gardening and living with animals improves human health