Pictures of Revelstone

[The Somberlain]

Hm. So... if I've understood you right, in my picture, you should be able to see the crests of the hills over the top of the plateau? The biggest problem here is that I'm working with a 512x512 heightfield... so I can't really put in much beyond the city itself. Anything else has to be some sort of perspective-trickery. Although I hadn't realised it was as hilly up there as it evidently is from those quotes, so thanks for pointing it out

So I'd guess that it's almost totally flat at the front of the plateau, and then further back, you have hills starting small and getting bigger and bigger (until you eventually reach the mountains themselves). However, as you say, it's a big area, so from the position of the 'camera' there, you'd probably not be able to see the closest hills (too flat) or the furthest hills (too far back)... and only the tops of some of the medium-sized hills in this upland. Then possibly the peaks of the mountains behind them. You certainly won't be able to see the fields of crops from that viewpoint.

But when SRD says that they're protected by sheer cliffs on the east and south, to my mind, he's meaning that they're at the top of the sheer cliffs from which Revelstone is carved... so, yes, you can be surrounded by cliffs on the plateau- they drop right down from it.

Although Revelstone, without a doubt, faces east. Maybe slightly south-east... but yeah. You can see on the map in the books that the mountains are to the west, and at the start of Gilden-Fire, Korik and the others wheel their Ranyhyn around (after seeing Elena's signal) and "went running into the east". Plus, in I think LFB, Covenant looks out of the tower and sees the late-afternoon shadow of Revelstone cast over the plains in front of him.

[I'm Murrin]

Revelstone is on the south-east point of the promontory - on the corner between the south-facing and east-facing cliffs, with Furls Falls and the lake at the south face.

you cannot be surrounded by cliffs and mountains on a plateau.

Isn't the Tibetan plateau surrounded by mountains? I don't understand your thinking here.

pla·teau
n. pl. pla·teaus or pla·teaux (-tz)

1. An elevated, comparatively level expanse of land; a tableland.

The land above is referred to as 'hilly', but is comparatively flat - it lies on top of the promontory which projects from the mountains: an area raised above the plains to east and south, but still below the mountains in the west. A comparatively flat expanse of elevated ground.

[wayfriend]

Isn't the Tibetan plateau surrounded by mountains? I don't understand your thinking here.

Let's grant that I understand what a plateau is.

The Revelstone plateau is higher, not lower, than the surrounding terrain on the east and south. What I was thinking was: territory that is upon such a plateau could not be surrounded by mountains on all sides.

But when SRD says that they're protected by sheer cliffs on the east and south, to my mind, he's meaning that they're at the top of the sheer cliffs from which Revelstone is carved...

Ah. I had interpreted his words to mean cliffs going upwards from the uplands, not downwards. Now that I see it this way, the directions (east and south) make it fairly certain he meant the cliffs of the plateau itself. And this does not mandate a valley continuing into the mountains.

So we may indeed be considering a rather squarish area, measured leagues on a side. The plateau would be rather level near the cliffs (E and S) and be hilly on the sides facing the mountains (N and W).

The biggest problem here is that I'm working with a 512x512 heightfield

Well, I cannot help you with that. But, as I believe you have already figured out, what I interpreted in your picture to be the background mountains was in fact meant to be Revelstone itself. Which is why I commented about the uplands. I agree it's all acedemic if your only intending to show the corner of the plateau holding Revelstone proper, and the tower.

- - - - - - - - - - -

One thing that I find very confusing is these descriptions.

The eastern end of the plateau was finished by a broad shaft of rock, half as high as the plateau and separate from it except at the base, the first several hundred feet.

This seems to mean that the wall that connects the tower to the plateau is several hundred feet high. Since the plateau is about 2000 feet high, the tower, half as high, would be about 1000 feet tall, and the connecting wall would be about one third of that height, about 300 feet tall.

As you know, that is the same wall that makes the courtyard. Inside the courtyard, the walls are considered high, but I don't imagine that they are 300 feet high.

Now, does this mean that the courtyard is higher than the surrounding land? If so, there is no indication of any ramp outside of the tower or inside the tower.

Every picture of Revelstone I have seen has suffered in this area. Either the walls were too low to match the above description, or they were too high for their to be a courtyard at the same level as the land outside the tower.

[wayfriend]

It's too tall!!!

Donaldson has the Revelstone tower pegged at about a thousand feet tall, the base alone being several hundred feet tall.

... a plateau perhaps two or three thousand feet high that ended in a straight cliff to the foothills ... more than two thousand feet of sheer precipice ...

The eastern end of the plateau was finished by a broad shaft of rock, half as high as the plateau and separate from it except at the base, the first several hundred feet.

Now, I don't think it is reasonable to have the tower be 1000 feet tall. The Empire State Building is 1,250 feet tall! Here is Boston's Prudential Tower - at 750 feet tall, it is only 3/4 the height of Revelstone's Tower.

• 

You see the problem - the tower is unreasonably tall! 75 stories tall?!?!

The body of Revelstone would be 2000 feet tall, or 150 stories tall, taller than the tallest building on earth by 25%!!!

And the walls between the tower and the keep, at several hundred feet, are too tall! Imagine a courtyard with walls that were 20 stories tall...

Perhaps the 'wedge shaped promontory' is much less high than the remainder of the plateau??? Say, 300 feet tall?

[The Somberlain]

I think it's supposed to be that big.

That's why it's so majestic and awe-inspiring to everyone who sees it, and why it's so impregnable. Remember, it's a fantasy novel! Things are supposed to be unearthly and amazing.

Because the main structure of the city is essentially made up of a mountain, they don't need to build anything; just to carve it out. So there's none of the structural problems you'd have if you tried to build a city 2500 feet tall.

[wayfriend]

But can you imagine the ur-viles catapults hurling vitriol high enough to reach the top of the Empire State building?

Can you even imagine that Mhoram and Satansfist can trade words with each other when Mhoram is 1/5th a mile in the air?

This is base-jumping height we're talking about.

[Sunbaneglasses]

Can you imagine the freaking stairs?

[matrixman]

Hi, folks, I bumped the "Did anyone speak from the top of the tower of Revelstone?" topic in case you'd like to check it out. We were scratching our heads too over the problematic dimensions SRD ascribed to Revelstone's tower.

By the way, kudos to you, Somberlain, for tackling a difficult thing like Revelstone. It's a fiendishly hard structure to recreate--unless, I suppose, we had at our disposal some ridiculously powerful workstations using ridiculously expensive Hollywood-grade graphics programs. Sorry, I think I'm starting to drool at the thought...

[safetyjedi]

It's a good thing they didn't have the Lands version of the Americans With Disabilty Act.

[The Somberlain]

All righty. Here's the latest development in the realisation of my vision.



I tried to take your suggestions on board... and even attempted to put in some mountain peaks just visible in the background. They worked okay at first, but making them look vaguely realistic ended up overloading my RAM. So I had to cut them out. I may be able to add in some background scenery when I add in the actual details.
The large cleft in the cliff over to the left is the planned location of Furl Falls... and I tried getting the walls a bit more as they're described in the book.

When it's finished, I'll probably take some more "photos" from other angles, so that you can see the courtyard, the other side, etc. etc.

[Warmark]

I like it!

[wayfriend]

If I understand this now ... the main part of the promontory in which Revelstone is built is supposed to be wedge-shaped ... is this just not showing? Or not there yet.

Also, the "connector" from the tower to the main keep (the courtyard walls) should widen more as it extends from the tower. Maybe I just cannot see that from this angle.

It would not be unfair to judge that the tower and courtyard walls are a continuation of the overall wedge shape.

Still understanding that your looking for input.

[The Somberlain]

The promontory in my terrain is wedge-shaped, though maybe the angle doesn't show that... However, I always visualised it as being a pretty smooth wedge anyway, rather than a great big pointy angle. So I think I might keep that as it is. The tower does look a bit too jutty-outty, but... it's going to be quite hard to change. I'll see what I can do, though. I certainly visualised it as being a little more pronounced than just the apex of the wedge-triangle, though.

But input is always good!



Incidentally, referring back to the problem of heights as described in the book. I started re-reading LFB today, and they just got to Andelain. I noticed, however, that Soaring Woodhelven is described as being about 400 feet tall. Now, my mind works in metres, but some rough conversions later, I worked out that this makes it a good 140 metres tall. I think.
Which... er.... ridiculous! I'd always visualised it as being maybe 60-70 metres at most. So I guess Donaldson either has a grander imagination than I, or simply doesn't know how tall things are.

[Landwaster]

I'm going to have to set my idea up with building blocks and post a photograph, I couldn't use that sort of fancy software to save my life (which of course I've already sacrificed with misguided assumption it would save the Land).

But that graphical one, the wedge, from earlier posts, I reckon is very close but not so broad an angle. And the recent renderings with the bif whaleish thingy is great. Possible differences of opinion include :
1. I think its sheer at the pointy end, whereas the image shows it parabolising.
2. Were the cliffs of the mountain range behind it really that sheer? Steep yes, but that sheer?
3. I wouldn't have thought the pointy bit rose up quite so much higher than its leadup.

Only my own take on it. Don't mind me, I'll only grow up to destroy everything.

[Avatar]

I love the way you just re-appear after 6 months as though you'd never been gone. Nice to see you around LandWaster. (Not that I have often of course, but people do talk. )

--Avatar

[Landwaster]

Yes apologies for another long hibaticus, football season is now over. I'm kind of seasonal. Thanks for the warmth.

Mayhap I was summon(s)ed?

Anyways, the rock looks great in these images. Love them. Wanna live there.

[matrixman]

It's...it's...Landwaster!

The messiah has returned to impart his wisdom! Quick, wake up the kids, phone the neighbours!

[Avatar]

Thanks for the warmth.

You expected anything less from The Watch?

There will be rejoicing.

--A

[The Somberlain]

I'm going to have to set my idea up with building blocks and post a photograph, I couldn't use that sort of fancy software to save my life (which of course I've already sacrificed with misguided assumption it would save the Land).

But that graphical one, the wedge, from earlier posts, I reckon is very close but not so broad an angle. And the recent renderings with the bif whaleish thingy is great. Possible differences of opinion include :
1. I think its sheer at the pointy end, whereas the image shows it parabolising.
2. Were the cliffs of the mountain range behind it really that sheer? Steep yes, but that sheer?
3. I wouldn't have thought the pointy bit rose up quite so much higher than its leadup.

Only my own take on it. Don't mind me, I'll only grow up to destroy everything.

I think you've made the same mistake someone else did, earlier. That pointy bit is in fact supposed to be the tower; the cliffs at the back are the Keep proper. The bit that looks like the "leadup" are the walls of the courtyard. Once it's finished, that should be more clear. My picture currently ignores the existence of the mountain range itself.
I'd like it to be more sheer at the front of the tower, too, but I just can't work out how to do it without e-tearing it up and starting again. And that I can't face. But I'll experiment.

And since I don't know what a bif whale is.... I'll take it as a compliment. If you were even referring to mine.

[Fist and Faith]

"Can you read it? Do you know what it means? I've been here three times" - four counting the brief translation during which he had refused Mhoram's summons - "but no one's ever been able to tell me what it means."

(snip)

Swallowing heavily, Pitchwife murmered, "No words. There are none. Your scant human tongue is void-" Tears spread through the creases of his face, mapping his emotion.

But the First said for him, "All tongues, Giantfriend. All tongues lack such language. There is that in the granite glory of the world's heart which may not be uttered with words. All other expression must be dumb when the pure stone speaks. And here that speech has been made manifest. Ah, my heart!" Her voice rose as if she wanted to both sing and keen. But for her also no words were adequate. Softly, she concluded, "The Giants of the Land were taught much by their loss of Home. I am humbled before them."

That's the effect Revelstone has. Here's the full couple pages, which includes good descriptions:

Halting in the last shelter of the trees, they looked up at their destination.

Revelstone: once the proud bastion and bourne of the ancient, Land-serving Lords; now the home of the na-Mhoram and the Clave.

Here at the apex of the promontory, the peaks dropped to form an upland plateau pointing east and sweeping north. All the walls of the plateau were sheer, as effective as battlements; and in the center of the upland lay Glimmermere, the eldritch tarn with its waters untouched by the Sunbane until they cascaded down Furl Falls in the long south face of the promontory and passed beyond the sources of their potency. But the Keep itself stood to the east of Glimmermere and Furl Falls. The Unhomed had wrought the city of the Lords into the eastward wedge of the plateau, filling that outcrop of the Earth's hard gutrock with habitations and defenses.

Directly above the company stood the watchtower, the tip of the wedge. Shorter than the plateau, its upper shaft rose free of the main Keep bulking behind it; but its lower half was sealed by walls of native stone to the rest of the wedge. In that way, Revelstone's sole entrance was guarded. Long ago, massive gates in the southeast curve of the watchtower's base had protected a passage under the tower - a tunnel which gave admittance only to the closed courtyard between the tower and the main Keep, where stood a second set of gates. During the last war, the siege of Revelstone had broken the outer gates, leaving them in rubble. But Covenant knew from experience that the inner gates still held, warding the Clave with their imponderable thickness and weight.

Above the abutment over its opening, the round shaft of the watchtower was marked with battlements and embrasures to the crenellated rim of its crown. They were irregular and unpredictable, shaped to suit the tower's internal convolutions. Yet the face of the watchtower was as simple as child's work compared to the dramatic complexity of the walls of the main keep. For a surprising distance into the plateau, the sheer cliffs had been crafter by the Unhomed - written with balconies and buttresses, parapets and walkways, and punctuated with windows of every description, embrasures on the lower levels, oriels and shaded coigns higher up - a prolific and apparently spontaneous multiplication of detail that always gave Covenant an impression of underlying structure, meaning which only Giants could read. The faint green sunset danced and sheened on the south face, confusing his human ability to grasp the organization of something so tall, grand, and timeless.

But even his superficial senses felt the tremendous power of the Banefire's beam as it struck sunward from athwart the great Keep. With one stroke, that red force transgressed all his memories of grandeur and glory, changed the proud habitation of the Lords to a place of malefic peril. When he had approached Revelstone so many days ago to rescue Linden, Sunder, and Hollian, he had been haunted by grief for the Giants and Lords and beauty the Land had lost. But now the knot of his chosen rage was pulled too tight to admit sorrow.

He intended to tear that place down if necessary to root out the Clave - and the bare thought that he might be forced to damage Revelstone made him savage.

Yet when he looked at his companions, saw the rapt faces of the Giants, his anger loosened slightly. The Keep had the power to entrance them. Pitchwife's mien was wide with the glee of appreciation; the First's eyes shone pride at the handiwork of her long-dead people; Mistweave gazed upward hungrily, all dismay forgotten for a time. Even Honninscrave had momentarily lost his air of doom, as though he knew intuitively that Revelstone would give him a chance to make restitution.

Conflicting passions rose in Covenant's throat. Thickly, he asked, "Can you read it? Do you know what it means? I've been here three times" - four counting the brief translation during which he had refused Mhoram's summons - "but no one's ever been able to tell me what it means."

For a moment, none of the Giants answered. They could not step back from the wonder of the Keep. They had seen Coercri in Seareach and marveled at it; but for them Revelstone was transcendent. Watching them, Covenant knew with a sudden pang that now they would never turn back - that no conceivable suasion would induce them to set their Search and their private purposes aside, to leave the Sunbane and Lord Foul to him. The Sunbane had eroded them in fundamental ways, gnawing at their ability to believe that their Search might actually succeed. What could Giants do to aid a Land in which nature itself had become the source of horror? But the sight of Revelstone restored them to themselves. They would never give up their determination to fight.

Unless Covenant found his own answer soon, he would not be able to save them.

Swallowing heavily, Pitchwife murmered, "No words. There are none. Your scant human tongue is void-" Tears spread through the creases of his face, mapping his emotion.

But the First said for him, "All tongues, Giantfriend. All tongues lack such language. There is that in the granite glory of the world's heart which may not be uttered with words. All other expression must be dumb when the pure stone speaks. And here that speech has been made manifest. Ah, my heart!" Her voice rose as if she wanted to both sing and keen. But for her also no words were adequate. Softly, she concluded, "The Giants of the Land were taught much by their loss of Home. I am humbled before them."

For a moment, Covenant could not respond. But then a memory came back to him - a recollection of the formal salutation that the people of Revelstone had formerly given to the Giants. Hail and welcome, inheritor of Land's loyalty. Welcome whole or hurt, in boon or bane - ask or give. To any requiring name we will not fail. In a husky voice, he breathed:

"Giant-troth Revelstone, ancient ward-
Heart and door of Earthfriend's main:
Preserve the true with Power's sword,
Thou ages-Keeper, mountain-reign."

At that, the First turned toward him; and for an instant her face was concentrated with weeping as if he had touched her deep Giantish love of stone. Almost immediately she recovered her sternness - but not before he had seen how absolutely she was ready now to serve him. Gruffly, she said, "Thomas Covenant, I have titled you Giantfriend, but it is not enough. You are the Earthfriend. No other name suffices."

Then she went and put her arms around her husband.