The Seven Words of Power--breaking down the Old Lanquage

[Count Michael]

Ok my friend brings up a good point. When Linden is speaking to the Elohim, they say that their Wurd (oom lau over "u") can be pronounced as the human pronunciation "Word," "Worm," or "Weird."

Now the Anglo-Saxons have a word meaning fate pronounced Weird and spelled Wyrd.

Their is the Worm of the World's End as well which signifies the "fate" of the Earthpower (Elohim).

If this word can be perceived in so many ways, then who is to say that the sevin "Words" are not as cryptic.

[Nerdanel]

Resurrecting this topic, my new idea is that in the name Melenkurion Skyweir Melenkurion = Skyweir. If the New Lords learned the name of the mountain from the First Ward, it could have had something to the effect of "The highest mountain in the Land is Melenkurion (Skyweir)" but since punctuation hadn't been invented the New Lords mistook the clarification as part of the mountain's name.

In Tolkien's Elvish "menel" means "sky" and the very special holy mountain of Númenor was called Meneltarma. "Kurion" may well have the mentioned Greek "lord" connection but may not mean exactly "lord". As a comparison, the earlier kings and queens of Númenor were all named Tar-Somethings, so the connection to Meneltarma continues. I think "kurion" may in fact be an early connection to Würd. According to what I have learned in another thread, "lord" and "weir" would both be words that belong to the Würd group.

But what is Sky Würd? My guess is that refers to the heavenly father of the Elohim and the originator of their Würd, the Creator himself! After all, it is traditional to invoke God against evil spirits.

On the other hand, Melenkurion could mean just mountain: Mount Skyweir.

To go even more on a limb, perhaps Linden and Covenant have been unconsciously using the power of the Seven Words. Linden has invoked God, which could correspond to "Melenkurion abatha"" and Covenant's "Hellfire and bloody damnation" could be "Durac minas mill khabaal!" It seems to have hellfire at least, based on this thread, although I suppose "khabaal" might as well mean "damnation" based on the vague translation.

On the other hand, switching to mixed Elvish again, "minas" means "tower" in Elvish and if "duroc" is the French stone, "duroc minas" would refer to "stone tower" and the whole sentence would be about a volcanic eruption, possibly along the lines of "Stone tower, exhale hellfire!" There have been passages that hint about the possibility of an eruption as a way for the Earth to cleanse itself of evil, and there have been some hints that the Ritual of Desecration was all about triggering a massive eruption of Mount Thunder. Perhaps "Melenkurion abatha!" could mean something like "Melenkurion Skyweir, awaken!" or perhaps "Mountain, awaken!" if we assume "Melenkurion Skyweir" is not redundant.

For sure, the volcanic explanation might explain why Kevin didn't consider the seventh word suitable for early Wards. Perhaps the seventh word is not included in the Wards at all, since the Ritual of Desecration is one of those things that can come to anyone who is lore-wise and despairing enough. However, frightening evil beings with aborted Desecrations might be useful enough to become a standard tactic.

Too speculative to be much of a spoiler, but anyway...

Spoiler

I'm guessing that in the Last Chronicles Lord Foul has made his home in... Melenkurion Skyweir! No evidence, just a hunch based the narrative logic of the story that requires for things to escalate, and Mount Thunder is hard to beat.

(I apologize if this post is confusing. This was one of those posts that developed significant new dimensions in the process of writing as I thought about the matter more thoroughly.)

[Nerdanel]

Trying to translate the Unfettered One's words, assuming that "Banas Nimoram" means literally "Light Celebration". (It could be something like "Light Dance" or "Light Remembrance" instead, but that doesn't really affect things from our point of view.)

Melenkurion abatha! Binas mill Banas Nimoram khabaal! Melenkurion abatha! Abatha Nimoram!

"Mountain awaken! Tower(???may be a different word entirely???) call(?) Light Celebration fire! Mountain awaken! Awaken Celebration!"

Well, at least abatha as awaken seems to fit well. But anyway, if the Unfettered One is attempting to say "minas" and instead saying "binas", his language skills may be really rather unspectacular. Atiaran said multiple times that she didn't really know very much and both being an Unfettered One and living a quiet life in Mithil Stonedown would be liable to cause one to forget much of the lore one doesn't get to practice.

(Perhaps instead of "mountain" I should use "Sky Würd" or "Skyweir" in the Unfettered One's speech.)

Note that while "mill" is probably a verb, I'm not sure about its exact meaning. After deliberation, I think I'm settling on "call" as the translation that fits the best, but it could be something else too, for example a verbed form of the English word "mill" and refer to the production or distribution of something.

[Guest]

a bit off topic, but I cannot help myself...

I could use this example: a couple of years ago, a French friend of mine explained the hidden implications in an old Asterix&Obelix comic book. I hadn't realized that practically every phrase was referring to some sort of internal joke, a complex pun or a paraphrase of some concept, a popular song or event which was well-known (in Belgium/France) at the time it was written (in this case, the sixties).

Wow...I am amazed that there is a reference to the Asterix stories in here. These books are near and dear to my heart. Your description of them is exactly as I remember. As a kid, I loved the stories and the artwork, but was not aware of the social and political commentary in the stories...I came to understand that as I grew older. They were a brilliant blend aimed at both adults and kids...much as the Simpson's are today.

[Borillar]

I think I've mentioned this before, but one thing that absolutely fascinated me was the fact that Covenant was able to use Words of Power successfully towards the end of TWL. I find it so interesting since (a) the lore of the Old Lords (which I think includes the Words of Power) is supposedly a "dead letter" by the time of the Sunbane, and (b) Covenant appears to be compelled to speak the words, or at least he doesn't understand what he's saying, which makes it odd that they work (since merely uttering the words is probably not the key to their power.). Point (a) is more of a mystery to me.

[Guest]

This is one of my favorite parts of TWL. Covenant has now fully accepted his role and is willing, with the power of the white gold, to fight for the Land and his friends.

I think it is important to remember that the lack of use of the Lore of the old lords does not mean it is no longer potent.

You raise an interesting question Borillar...are the words of power an extension of the old lord's Lore, or are they something else - the language of the Earthpower that were waiting to be discovered by the Lore? I believe the latter, as it fits my vision that he is able to use them even though he has not studied, and does not understand, the Lore of the old lords.

Also, Covenant "is the white gold". All other forms of power he has encountered have been mastered by the "white wild magic gold". It does not surprise me that the words work for him, as they are brought forth from, and amplified by, his essential nature.

More enigmatic to me is TC's implied ability to control the wild magic during those desperate days as they escape from the Sarangrave, and he seems to have no problem wielding the power in a controlled manner against the Lurker. Yet in future chapters, he reverts to the "Doubting Thomas" who believes he is so out of control, and I do not recall him ever using the words of power again.

Perhaps he has good reason for his fears and doubts since the venom in him magnifies with each relapse, but why is he so unable to conceive of the idea that he can perhaps articulate the wild magic with greater control by channeling it through some other medium, as he did with the Krill? Could not the words of power be used in a similar way to strengthen his grip on the wild magic?

I would like to think that SRD has a better literary explanation for this, but I guess if TC weren't so torn up by his guilt and conflicting emotions after seeing the consequences of his power, if he were so easily willing and able to use the power of his ring without being a risk to the arch, we would not appreciate either him or the story so much.

[Fist and Faith]

I need to read this part again. Off hand, I'm also surprised the Words have power under the Sunbane. After all, the Sunbane was the result of Foul's corruption of the Earthpower. Because the Staff broke, Foul was able to change the Law. How, then, were the old rules still potent? And yet, aliantha survived. Maybe Foul simply hadn't corrupted it enough yet.

And I also agree that merely making the sounds wouldn't likely get you anywhere. But maybe since Covenant knew that there was power in them, it didn't matter that he didn't understand that power. What I mean is, he was doing more than merely making sounds. He had intent. And yeah, the white gold may have helped. heh

[Guest]

There is something else - when TC uses the Words to disrupt the attack of the Lurker, wasn't it at night? Perhaps this also is in play, since the effect of the Sunbane does not spread to Sarangrave Flat during that time. If memory serves, the Sunbane did not have a direct effect on the lower land at all until it reached it's zenith at which point the "spillover" effected the lower Land. The boundary seems to have been Landsdrop. So the Earthpower is not fully corrupted except in the upper land...

[Buckarama]

By the time they had reached the swamp, weren't they already experiencing a wain in the Sunbane? Maybe it didn'thave the control there that it did on the upper portion of Landsdrop.

[Nerdanel]

Also, the krill is a powerful weapon of the Old Lords and preserved the water of Mirrormere and the Furl Falls even against the sun of desert.

[Guest]

Interesting idea Nerdanel...I always took the untrammeled beauty of Glimmermere under the Sunbane to be the result of the eldritch waters of the tarn rather than the power of the Krill. It had a puissance of its own even in the first Chrons. If memory serves (not always the case!) the water remains proof against the Sunbane even after TC removes the Krill.

Since I am currently about half way through WGW, I will have to take note as I continue to see if SRD touches on this during the Search's return to Revelstone.

[KAY1]

When they go back to Revelstone after the Search Glimmermere is still there as Covenant shows it to Linden and this time Covenant is reflected (remember previously it never reflected mere mortals). I believe there was also a comment saying that the waters would not be affected immediately by the Sunbane but that they believed they would be eventually as it was the Krill maintaining the Earthpower there.

[KAY1]

Even the Clave were baffled as to why Glimmermere resisted though they had heard legends of a powerful artifact within it's depths which kept it pure.

[Buckarama]

And I think TC couldn't control the venom. The krill he could wrap up and put away. Venom was apart of him and was lead by his emotions. At anytime the venom could get away from him and that's what made him so dangerous and why the Elohm made him stupid. So he wouldn't unlease the white gold on the world.

[Guest]

Since I am currently about half way through WGW, I will have to take note as I continue to see if SRD touches on this during the Search's return to Revelstone.

I found the reference I sought in WGW Page 205

Here, at the apex of the promontory, the peaks dropped to form an upland plateau pointing east and sweeping north. All the walls of the plateau were sheer, as effective as battlements; and in the center of the upland lay Glimmermere, the eldritch tarn with its waters untouched by the Sunbane until they cascaded down Furl Falls in the long south face of the promontory and passed beyond the sources of their potency.

Even now with the Krill gone, the waters are proof against the Sunbane, so much so that they will eventually

Spoiler

quench the Sunbane.

Good stuff....I'd love to swim in those waters.

[Nerdanel]

An old legend avers that a nameless periapt lies in the deeps of the lake, sustaining it against the Sunbane.

He is talking about the krill, unless Glimmermere is a veritable artifact junkyard.

Of course, he may not have wanted to be truthful to Covenant.

[dermot]

Could the 7 words call up the Ritual of Desecration. It does say Kevin met Lord Foul and they spoke the words/incantation together.

[danlo]

bump for Rocksister

[Rocksister]

"Bump for Rocksister"? Rocksister is here and interested in EVERYTHING TC-related. If I missed this one (it takes a lifetime to read every post from day one, and I'm totally new here), I own a study Bible and in front of it, it contains some Jewish translations. They list Elohim as meaning God. THAT can NOT be arbitrary, folks. IF it meant "car" or "hotel" or something unrelated, yes, it might be, but not GOD. That word was chosen on purpose. Is the Creator one of the Elohim? Hmmm.. I'll bet there's a post somewhere related to this. I just don't have time to find it. I'm going to try the search function above. Haven't done that yet. One more thing; I drive a silver Mustang and we get new license plates next year and can have seven letters on it. What do you think of RANYHYN for a license plate? Cool, eh??? Get? Mustang - Ranyhyn???? Of course, everyone and their brother will ask me what that is. I have the answer prepared; if you have to ask, it won't help if I answer.

[Fist and Faith]

Good answer!