I have a copy of 'Runes'

[danlo]

SRD said (in an email to me two days ago) that tho his publishers have been notified shutting down such auctions are a tricky and expensive legal proposition.

[shadow]

Hey all,

A quick two cents from an occasional lurker (and SRD/Covenant fan) who dabbles in copyright law as part of my job. (First of all, as an aside, it’s great to see such a strong SRD community online. I’ve been hoping to see the Third Chronicles since high school… and it’s almost here! Thanks to everyone here for supporting SRD’s work.)

Onto the “ARC problem.” I’d welcome a contrary opinion in the event that I’m wrong, but I really don’t think that there’s anything illegal about selling advanced reading copies on ebay or anywhere else. Something called the “first sale doctrine” lets a lawful owner of any copyrighted work, from a book to a CD, sell it to whomever (and for whatever) that owner wants. The fact that the seller might have obtained a “reviewer’s only” copy for free really doesn’t matter. Unless he/she broke into the publisher’s office and stole it, an ebay sale for tons of $$$ is completely fair game. Whatever it is, it isn’t a crime. Ebay’s policies reflect this: pages.ebay.com/help/policies/copyrights.html.

Now an ebay seller of an ARC _might_ be breaking a contract with his/her employer or the publisher. For example, the publisher might make the bookstore or reviewer sign an agreement that it _won’t_ sell or distribute any advanced copies. But all that means is that the publisher is going to get mad at the bookstore or reviewer who ends up selling it, maybe refusing to send advanced copies their way in the future. That _doesn’t_ mean that a crime was committed. And I frankly doubt that you’re going to see a publisher make a scene about the occasional advanced copy being sold online. Remember… the _publisher_ is the one that sent all of these advanced copies out into the world. If the publisher wants to reap the benefits of all of these free copies floating around (publicity, word of mouth, “buzz,” etc.), it also has to expect that people are going to post spoilers or share copies or even (gasp) sell them.

[caamora]

I feel better now that it is not necessarily illegal. But, I was also under the impression - perhaps incorrectly - that whomever was selling this was an employee of a book store or publishing company and I was sure that it would be a breach of contract for said employee to privately profit from books sales. It would be like taking a book off of the shelf and selling it on ebay for a higher price. That is the right and property of the bookstore or publishing company. These ebay sellers sound like private individuals.

I stand corrected on the legality end.

[markjeffrey]

Well, my (admittedly rather controversial) quest for an ARC copy of Runes turned some interesting side information:

I got into a discussion with a clerk at a major bookseller in LA who looked up the book in the system and went, "Whoa ... " at which I went, 'What?"
And he said, "Gollancz/Orion has apparent ordered 175,000 initial print copies of 'Runes'. That's freaking HUGE." Normally, for a book in which they have confidence, the initial run is 100,000 tops.

So this means Donaldson's publisher is showing some gravelingas and throwing down the Big Bet on 'Runes' -- which was nice to hear. From what we've heard from SRD and how Del Rey treated him over the years, it sounds as if he's found a publisher who is truly behind him.

[danlo]

[Byrn]

I concur.

[Fist and Faith]

So this means Donaldson's publisher is showing some gravelingas

I wish I'd thought of saying that!!!

[Revan]

Hmmm... let's hope someone else on this site will get a copy then tell those willing to be told, what happens. And let's hope Duchy doesn't get her hands on another one! LOL! (sorry Duch, love ya and all, but I want to know what happens!)

[duchess of malfi]

Actually, Darth, I got an email yesterday from someone offering to sell me another copy. I didn't feel comfortable with the offer, so turned them down.

The copy that I purchased was apparently sent priority mail with a tracking number. This morning it arrived at the post office in the little town where I live. So they have today and tomorrow to get it to my house... Mail will be held starting Wednesday, as that is the day I am leaving for New Mexico. We shall see...

[markjeffrey]

So this means Donaldson's publisher is showing some gravelingas

I wish I'd thought of saying that!!!

Hahaha Thanks for the props, F&F ... 'Joy is in the ears that hear'

[Myste]

I really don’t think that there’s anything illegal about selling advanced reading copies on ebay or anywhere else.

Now an ebay seller of an ARC _might_ be breaking a contract with his/her employer or the publisher. For example, the publisher might make the bookstore or reviewer sign an agreement that it _won’t_ sell or distribute any advanced copies. But all that means is that the publisher is going to get mad at the bookstore or reviewer who ends up selling it, maybe refusing to send advanced copies their way in the future. That _doesn’t_ mean that a crime was committed.

This is true...it's not actually illegal to buy or sell ARCs. And the publisher distributes them without any intention of making money off of them, except in a trickle-down sense, via reviews and "buzz."It's really more of an ethical question, and I do know that if you work for a publisher and use your job there to procure ARCs and get caught selling them on ebay, you're going to be looking for another job. And chances are you won't find one in publishing.

I will say that publishers do pay attention to ebay, and when a galley goes on sale before publication of the actual book, they pay attention to what it sells for, as a possible indicator of demand for the book. But the general feeling is one of irritation and contempt for the seller.

[Usagi]

I think I'll try for the next one....if it stays reasonable.

[A Gunslinger]

For anyone who actually procures these copies, please do with them what you will, but please please ...no spoliers.

[Revan]

Yeah, don't dare post spoilers to anyone who doesn't want them. That's just sick... however feel free to send them to a willing person... namely, Darth Revan.

[A Gunslinger]

Darth. you are a glutton!

[Revan]

Darth. you are a glutton!

No I'm not! Your confusing me with my sister.

[dlbpharmd]

I've gotten a little bit behind on this discussion, so I only today learned that Duchess won the auction for the 1st ARC. I checked ebay a minute ago and learned that there is another ARC for sale; the current bid is $51. The description of the book stated the seller's opinion that the book will be a "true collector's item."

So I guess I don't understand - what about this makes it a collector's item?
Don't get me wrong, I certainly understand the desire to read this now. I just don't see how the ARC will increase in value.

I've posted a question to SRD on the GI about this as well, to get his thoughts.

[Myste]

So I guess I don't understand - what about this makes it a collector's item?

It's three things, mainly:
1. Limited print run--there aren't that many ARCs of any given book out there, and rarity raises the value
2. Limited distribution--the only people who are actually supposed to get them are booksellers and reviewers, so finding one on the common market is fairly unusual.
3. They're generally the earliest "public" version of the book available. Lots can change betweeen the ARC stage and the published book stage. (Though it usually doesn't, because it's often very expensive to make major changes at that point.)

[dlbpharmd]

From SRD's gradual interview:

dlbpharmd: There is currently a big debate on kevinswatch.com about the sale of the ARC for Runes on ebay. Would you mind sharing your thoughts and opinions about this?

I think it's "stealing," and I don't condone it. But we live in a society ruled by greed, and I know of no effective way to change "'our' core values." I'm told by those who know more than I do (agents and editors) that the vast majority of ARCs get sold to SOMEbody. Most of the sellers are just more discreet than our friend on eBay.

(06/23/2004)

[Usagi]

Nice to know he has his opinion. ^_^