Kevin's Watch

Revenant wrote:"Deathland barrens: This land has become desolute and dangerous as an immediate result of the Word of Desolation spoken in ancient times by High Lord Gideon Truthslayer."

Haha...wow...that's, like, so wrong. I mean...wow. Heh.

Jae, eh? Damn. I don't want an evil-twin running around. Or maybe that's the good-twin. Hmmm...-jae...er...jay

TincupCPG wrote:Somehow I doubt SRD will find this amusing. Now, he might not mind the obvious and painful "borrowings" but like he has said before....Where is the originality? Like fan fiction..he says he doesn't mind but if you create something new then you get more satisfaction from it.

I would quote him on that but am too lazy at moment to go look it up.

Yeah, but fanfiction at least tries to add something to the original, to explore the world created by the author further. This is nothing like that.

Maybe he presumes that his intended audience doesn't read SRD so they won't really catch the blatant ripoff.

Cheers,

Arma Bhavamin
a curious kind of plant, medicine for original authors, poison for plagiarists

Yeah, you are right. It sounds like sour milk, i know...but DAMN.

I read the book twice now and everyone here should read this thing...except I really don't want you all to waste your money. It is so similar in syntax..story, etc...quite unbelievable. I have been really temped to go to that guy's website and leave a few polite but well aimed barbs. But I am (rather proudly) resisting the temptation.

My GF has just read all the books in CoTC...and then she saw this. The first thing out of her mouth was "doesn't this guy have any pride?"

She isn't even a rabid fan like me...and she recognizes what has happened here. sad.

Ultimately, it would be for SRD, his lawyer or agent, or publishers (?), to decide if the similarities go beyond the acceptable to such a point that legal actions are to be taken.

(I wouldn't want to annoy SRD while he's working on Fatal Revenant... )

Murrin wrote:From the boards:

Michael Warden wrote:I for one think that the Chronicles of TC the Unbeliever are great books, and Donaldson's best work. Although Donaldson is not promoted as a Christian author, the powerful symbolism in that series speaks deeply to Christians.

Ironically, I'm in agreement with this statement.

As a Christian, I've found Donaldson's works more inspiring on a spiritual level than almost any "Christian" fiction I've ever read -- especially when grappling with the idea of evil/possession, the dangers of power, and victory through self-sacrifice.

I just zipped over to Warden's site and was completely disgusted by what excerpts I've read. Thematically, books can sometimes share concepts -- but when the same themes are used, along with many almost-identical superfluous details, that's plagarism in my book. (Warden's apparently used the "Mad Libs" approach to creative writing...) There are far too many similarities in theme, setting, character, plot, and names for it to be a mere coincidence -- so much so that I saw other posts here wondering if the work was supposed to be satire.

If people accused Terry Brooks of ripping off Tolkien for his first Shannara book (and Brooks admits to incorporating some of Tolkien's races and concepts), then these books are blatant rip-offs -- especially because as far I know he doesn't credit Donaldson for his ideas. That still wouldn't make it right, but at least he'd be honest about it.

It doesn't help that his writing is nowhere near as good either. I suppose it's "Donaldson Lite," huh?

Revenant wrote:Ultimately, it would be for SRD, his lawyer or agent, or publishers (?), to decide if the similarities go beyond the acceptable to such a point that legal actions are to be taken.

This is the key point. Someone would have to actively sue Warden for copyright infringement. To make this worth the time, effort, and money it would cost SRD, his agent, and his publishers to pursue the litigation, they'd have to know that Warden was actually making money off a book.

It all basically comes down to a question of exposure. If Gideon were to sell more than 5000 copies, it might become an issue. If it doesn't, then it's not worth the cost of the lawyers SRD's publisher would have to pay to pursue the case. I did some research on Warden's publisher: Barbour & Co. are small beans. Their own founder describes them as a Christian promotional publisher. And, according to this, they're obviously not reaching a very wide audience. Their average advance is less than $3000. Their sell-through is about equivalent. In other words, they barely sell enough copies of their books to cover the costs of publishing them. Which means they don't sell enough to threaten SRD's sales. Which means they'll probably be ignored.

That's the business side of things--and who knows, the guy could be selling enough of a similar-enough book to make it worth crushing him like a bug. The thing is, the book is not being published for a general trade market; it's being published for a very specific niche by a very small publisher. So from the business perspective, crushing him (should he, indeed, deserve it) probably just isn't worth.

Ethically speaking, however, it seems like the guy's a louse.

and who knows, maybe it will get other people into SRD

Michael Warden finally responded to the question that was posted on his site.

www.michaelwarden.com/Forum/topic.asp?T ... chronicles

Go check it out. I sent him an email a few days ago prompting him to check it out and I guess it worked. But I don't think he really answered the question.

Sheol wrote:I sent him an email a few days ago prompting him to check it out and I guess it worked.

Good idea. Strange though that someone had to point it out to him. Maybe somebody should suggest he set up a gradual interview too!

Sheol wrote:But I don't think he really answered the question.

Well, he did answer my question, as it was asked.
Without reading between the lines, my question was quite inoffensive.

I have made a reply to his answer. I inspired myself from some Watchers' comments in this thread.
I tried to be as diplomatic as I could, leaving him enough elbow room to explain himself freely and amicably: I don't think we can gain much by a brutal confrontation.
I also wanted my question to not contradict the fact that I didn't read his book! I tried to be carefull with the wording.

I hope I did it right...

Along with prompting him to reply I also mentioned something about some aquaintences of mine saying that his work was a blatent ripoff of TCOTC and I wanted to know what he had to say about it. I also told him that the post by lordmhoram was not a collective idea of Watch members or even supported by it. He hasn't emailed me back yet, and I don't think he will get to it.

Heh... Ah, well... The velvet glove was itchy anyways...
Life goes on.

He answered the question at face value, but certainly not the implications we've been discussing here. (And I notice he didn't touch that accusatory post one way or the other - either to comment or to have it deleted.) I'd love to hear if he responds to that email, but I bet you're right that he won't.

"Love as wild magic,"

Huh? Have I missed a major SRD theme? I've never really seen a "love" theme in TC, but rather responsibility to self and others (and a wedding ring has always implied binding responsibility to me). I mean, I can see various kinds of love - love of the Land, TC and Linden's love, etc... but not the kind of Love (I'm assuming a Christian or Christian-type love) he's talking about...and certainly not represented by wild magic.

I think I can see what he's talking about. The wild magic represents Covenant's wild and passionate love for the Land as well as his articulation of his desire to protect it. Viewed from that perspective, the second Chronicles can be said to be about how wild and reckless passion and love can often be destructive to the object of that love...

I think I read a synopsis for volume 2 entitled "An Ill Wind War".


Abbadon seeks to resurrect the long dead Lord Fetish the Gimp Mask Wearer and to then remove the Butt Plug of power which prevents the Vortex of Evil escaping from Lord Fetish. Or it may be the Fist Shaped Colossus of the Falls rather than a Butt Plug - I forget. "What will the Vortex do?" asks Specky No Bird, the incompetent head of the Ward Robe. Lord Moron replies: "It will make us pass out!"

Lord Fetish's corpse is protected by the Evil BeeGees - 3 monstrous brothers of one birth who manipulate their victims through the power of their evil Harpy voices.

The ending involves our antihero wishing he had four fingers as the Butt Plug is removed and he has to re-enact the story of the brave boy sticking his finger in the dyke.

I forget the rest.

Tee hee hee

So... if wild magic is love...does that mean when Mhoram said "You are the white gold", he was really hitting on Covenant?-jay

Thomas Covenant slash... what are we coming too?

Most definitely, don't tell me you missed the homosexual overtones throughout the entire series?

You know what this means now... Covenant/Stargate crossover fanfiction.-jay

Oooh, Jack O'Neill/Thomas Covenant....

Okay, I'll stop now.

[La la la. Look at me. Edit edit edit. Woo woo woo. Heh...ok, I'll stop.-jay ]

[Hey, this is my post. Don't make me edit your profile! -Alynna]

[Ah oh. (Checks profile). Heh, looks clean. Oh yeah? Well, I can edit your avatar and give you a terrible Jaytar instead, heh.-jay ]

[Agh! Not Busby! Alas, I must concede defeat. *bows* You sure know how to threaten people! -Alynna]

[Ah, so I know her true weakness now...Bwa ha ha...heh. Well, it's not much of a threat, since you could always change the avatar back...heh. Maybe Nick Succorso would know how to threaten someone better... Heh.-jay]