Kevin's Watch

dlbpharmd wrote:To me it's a different kind of sight altogether. Linden is a physician and her sight is manifested as health-sense. She can also project her consciousness into others and control them. No Haruchai can do that.

it's almost like Lindens is more focused. Such as when she senses a raver she recoils from it the sense is so strong. But the haruchai have a broader sight. They see much more but Lindens sense is deeper. That's how it comes across to me anyways.

The Stoned Downer wrote:Also I believe that TC had no 'body' in the Land to be buried becuase he was not from the Land.

You're right- I never even thought of that. Covenant's dead body was in the "real" world. Linden would never ask where he was buried because she already knows.

Now I feel like a complete moron!

kvickie wrote:

The Stoned Downer wrote:Also I believe that TC had no 'body' in the Land to be buried becuase he was not from the Land.

You're right- I never even thought of that. Covenant's dead body was in the "real" world. Linden would never ask where he was buried because she already knows.

Now I feel like a complete moron!

No body? What did Pitchwife pick up in Kiril Threndor after Linden faded away?

Troy certainly seemed to have physical remains in the Land, even though he was also dead in our world. (True, his body was a stump, but there was something there in WGW).

dlbpharmd wrote:

kvickie wrote:

The Stoned Downer wrote:Also I believe that TC had no 'body' in the Land to be buried becuase he was not from the Land.

You're right- I never even thought of that. Covenant's dead body was in the "real" world. Linden would never ask where he was buried because she already knows.

Now I feel like a complete moron!

No body? What did Pitchwife pick up in Kiril Threndor after Linden faded away?

Damn, its been awhile since a read the 1st and 2nd chrons. I gotta read 'em again.

I am guessing that Kevins dirt is a consequence of the staff of law being absent for a few centuries.

The other place that TC (well his mind at least) could have been brought to the time of runes from is when his mind was closed by the elohim in the second chronicles.

This would create an interesting violation of law if he arrived with his wedding ring from the past and meets Linden who has his ring on.

fleshharrower wrote:

dlbpharmd wrote:To me it's a different kind of sight altogether. Linden is a physician and her sight is manifested as health-sense. She can also project her consciousness into others and control them. No Haruchai can do that.

it's almost like Lindens is more focused. Such as when she senses a raver she recoils from it the sense is so strong. But the haruchai have a broader sight. They see much more but Lindens sense is deeper. That's how it comes across to me anyways.

I think the difference would be that the hauchai can "see" whilst Linden "feels" ...

"To me it's fishy, since Lord Foul had Jeremiah. "Tell her I have her son." I mean, he must've set him free on purpose; I wouldn't expect the kid to escape on his own."

Dang, I didn't see this post until now, but Lord Foul's post is exactly along what I posted in another thread:

"Jerimiah coming to Revelstone?.... That is so not right. TC and Jerimiah is a bad thing, folks, have no doubt about that. Foul is planting the seeds of despair and the next book is going to be so frustrating.. I can feel it.
... how do you hurt someone who has nothing?... Give them back something that is broken..."
This is bad, folks... Linden is in for some serious bouts of hope crushed before despair... "

BRING IT ON!!!!

Usivius wrote:"To me it's fishy, since Lord Foul had Jeremiah. "Tell her I have her son." I mean, he must've set him free on purpose; I wouldn't expect the kid to escape on his own."....

Why couldn't Foul have been talking about ROGER and the message was to be sent to JOAN who is wandering around the Sarangrave?

Well for one thing, you can't tell Joan Anything..she's still mad. I'm sure Foul Knew it.

dlbpharmd wrote:No body? What did Pitchwife pick up in Kiril Threndor after Linden faded away?

An interesting question, that of Covenant's burial. I can't remember off the top of my head, but was there any mention of Covenants corpse not being found after the bonfire at the end of WGW?

I've always assumed that his body faded out of the Land as well, and was buried in "reality." Afterall, how did the police/medical folk etc. in our world know that he'd been murdered, if there wasn't a body? He would have been counted as missing, rather than "dead".

Hell, come to think of it, the physical body doesn't seem to have any exitence in the Land at all. Afterall, in LFB, TC drops in front of the police car, is transferred to hospital, etc. This obviously would be impossible if the body faded out of "reality" the same way that it does in the Land.

Which, to me at least, makes it unlikely that he is actually buried in the land, making it very difficult for Foul to raise him.

That said, I equally am not convinced that the TC (and the Jeremiah for that matter) are the "real" ones. Not saying that they can't be, just that nothing so far has offered evidence either way. Much more likely to me that they are a trap of some kind.

--Avatar

But this is not what happened at the end of WGW. If one assumes (and I think correctly so) that the moment of Covenant's death in the "real world" coincides with the moment that Foul stabbed him, then Covenant's body should have faded immediately. But we know this did not happen. In fact, after Foul's defeat, as Linden sat in Kiril Threndor cradling Covenant in her lap, he became "more real" as she started to fade away. And as previously mentioned, Pitchwife carried Covenant's body from Kiril Threndor.

Could this be another open loose end in the 2nd Chronicles?

dlbpharmd wrote:Could this be another open loose end in the 2nd Chronicles?

Hile Troy set the precident; if you die in the real world you don't have to leave the Land. (This could be a matter of degree: when you're unconscious, you can visit the Land for a little while; when you're so unconscious you're dead, you can visit the Land for a long while.)

I think that this is all that happened to Covenent. He didn't have to leave the Land because he was already dead in the real world. I'd like to imagine that his real-world death coincided with his fusion in the Banefire - that his total commit to defeating Lord Foul included losing all his attachments to his real world.

Quickly browsed through the WHGB of Runes when I got home yesterday, and it says (roughly) "Returning from the Land to discover Covenant was indeed dead, Linden..."

Returned and discovered his dead body is the natural assumption. So did he leave a body in both the "real" world, and the Land?

--A

It would seem so, Avatar. Curious, isn't it?

Indeed it is.

Still, no evidence so far that his dead body remained in the land after Linden left.

It's conceivable that it too disappeared later, which would sort out the "two bodies" discrepancy, but would mean Covenant was not buried in the Land and presumably couldn't be "raised" by Foul.

And if we consider the earlier books, it suggests that a physical body is always left behind in the "real" world, regardless of the fact that the consciousness travels to the Land.

The only way Covenant could be buried there is if there are indeed two bodies, as I'm sure that they would have noticed if his corpse had suddenly disappeared, and if there were no corpse in the first place, they wouldn't refer to his "murder" in the "real" world.

--Avatar

Well, we do know that one person can have a living body in each world simultaneously. After all, they twice took Covenant to the hospital in the 'real' world while his mind was away visiting the Land. Likewise, in TOT when Covenant tried to send Linden back, she saw his (dying, but not yet dead) body lying on the stone; but his 'occupied' body (so to speak) was still on the Isle of the One Tree.

That being the case, I don't see why one couldn't have dead bodies in both worlds.

Variol Farseer wrote:Well, we do know that one person can have a living body in each world simultaneously. After all, they twice took Covenant to the hospital in the 'real' world while his mind was away visiting the Land. Likewise, in TOT when Covenant tried to send Linden back, she saw his (dying, but not yet dead) body lying on the stone; but his 'occupied' body (so to speak) was still on the Isle of the One Tree.

Exactly. We are though, presupposing that the "body" in the Land is just that: A living, physical body. Perhaps we're heading back to the question of whether the Land is, afterall, imaginary?

I follow your logic in that if there are two living bodies, (and there seem to be), there could just as easily be two dead bodies, one in each "reality", but something bothers me about the idea.

I suppose it's sound though, and equally, I must say that, in the past, I never gave much thought to the fact that a body remains behind each time, practically neccesitating that there must be two bodies, (provided the "Land body" is equally real).

Hmm... But to try and push this a little further, why then doesn't the "Land body" remain behind when he returns to the "real" world? That body just fades away, suggesting again that the Land has no physical reality.

Damn, I don't like the way this is going. For me, there's never been much question as to whether the Land was real. But this is making me wonder.

--Avatar

If the "real" world is also imagination, a construct of minds, then the Land is as real as the Earth of Covenant and Linden is.

"And there you are. Out of your difficulty at once." (The Chancellor, Iolanthe)

That explanation, I have absolutely no problem with. I've long suspected that reality is not all its cracked up to be.

--Avatar