Kevin's Watch

Thanks V much. That's ok I have read Runes so no spoilers to me!

KAY1 wrote:I believe High Lord Elena did ask Amok what had prompted his return and he said something along the lines of 'I travelled the Land and saw the Land's need, therefore I returned. In this way my maker made me well'

The full text is quoted on page 3 of this thread. Amok explained that he had seen the peril. But as to why he returned, he put it succinctly: "You bear the white gold. It is for your sake that I have returned."

Avatar wrote:Hmm, good post WayFriend. But what about the fact that he appeared the first time in the very presence of white gold, and yet still, fearing his error, in the knowledge of white gold having awakened the Krill, abandoned the Lords.

Yes, that does seem like a nettle in my theory.

Gotta go ... taking a class ... sorry for the hasty responses ...

Avatar wrote:But what about the fact that he appeared the first time in the very presence of white gold, and yet still, fearing his error, in the knowledge of white gold having awakened the Krill, abandoned the Lords.

A ha!

If you read the passage where Amok appears in Revelstone, then you can see that there is only one person introduced to Amok - Elena. Two other persons are named in his hearing - Verement and Mhoram. Covenant neither speaks nor is spoken to, nor is he introduced or addressed. As to the awakening of the krill, the only thing said to Amok is "We did not give life to the krill. That was not our doing. We lack the lore for such work." Neither wild magic nor white gold is mentioned in his presence at all.

Therefore, it's perfectly plausible that Amok did not know white gold was in the Land at that time. The only requirement is that we grant that Amok cannot sense Covenant's ring at a distance (which the Lords could not do, either).

And it is certainly the case that Amok did not yet know that white gold was what awakened the krill.

As the one who stirred up all the trouble of this discussion, I'm glad to see it getting such thorough treatment because SRD hinted in the GI that the particular mystery of Amok will not be explained any further in the 3rd Chronicles (he said something to the effect of "I've said everything there is to say about Amok"). It's very possible that whatever we come up with is what we'll have to live with.

I was going to throw in a Runes spoiler here, because this discussion on Amok has got me thinking about something again in Runes, but on second thought I'm going to tack on to one of existing "Runes" threads.

Good point WayFriend, seems to cover that fairly neatly.

Who though had the knowledge at that point that White Gold, and hence Wild Magic, was abroad in the Land though? How did his travels reveal it to him?

--A

Avatar wrote:Who though had the knowledge at that point that White Gold, and hence Wild Magic, was abroad in the Land though? How did his travels reveal it to him?

Everyone in Revelstone by this point knew that Covenant was hanging about. If Amok, after departing, snooped around Revelstone for even a tiny bit, he would have become knowledgable. He would then confirm this by travelling the Land and witnessing the Despiser's armies, from which he would conclude that it was, indeed, save-or-damn time. His alternate condition would be met, so he'd catch up with TC in Revelwood and re-reveal himself.

Another side to this whole thing is the author building suspense and drama. Whatever the reasons are, he want's the reader to feel like Covenant is once again is causing things in the Land to be broken, that sacred things are being violated. The reader is to remain on the knife's edge as to whether Covenant is saving the Land or harming it. So we have the insinutation, but not the bold statement, that perhaps Kevin's plans for the Seventh Ward are gone awry.

Okay, so Amok did some searching around, saw what he saw, and decided to return to Revelstone and make himself available.

DHBWM, but wouldn't Amok also have seen Lord Foul's preps for war and his army on the march, and taken that into account?

Be that as it may, I still think Kevin's plan was flawed from birth, and doomed by the white gold's influence. Amok may have said that his ability to exercise some discretion, and consent to carry out his function, demonstrated the wisdom of Kevin's design. I think it shone a harsh light upon a fatal flaw, instead. Amok was no more qualified to judge the wisdom of Kevin, his maker, than to wield the Power of Command himself.

IIRC, he stated that he was himself the Seventh Ward. That to me makes sense because he was not the power itself (presumably none of the first six Wards contained power per se, but only knowledge that could lead to power). His function was to in effect help guard, i.e. "ward" the Power of Command, against any but the qualified seeker who met the conditions.

This is how I read Amok's design:

1. On the one hand, his function is to lead the seeker who has met the conditions to the EarthBlood. He is eager to do so; it is the purpose and culmination of his existence, even though he self-destructs afterwards. (I'm reminded of the "smart bombs" in the film Dark Star ) He is equipped with the necessary knowledge and ability to carry out his function and to resist overt attempts to bypass his built-in restrictions. He is otherwise endowed with the personality and maturity of a young man, not any particular wisdom or insight.

Therefore, IMO Amok would lead Elena to the Earthblood if he could. He might rationalize his choice, but IMO that is almost certainly what he would choose.

2. On the other hand, he could not appear to anyone in the Land until the krill has been activated. Apparently once the krill has been lit up, he is then free to appear and to be summoned by the lore-student at any time afterwards, until his purpose is fulfilled. (Therefore, IMO it might have been possible for the new Lords, had they mastered the Sixth Ward, to have kept Amok and the EarthBlood "in reserve" until they decided they needed to use it.)
(Also note that apparently the BloodGuard must have seen him before, but I'll guess the restriction may have been activated only when Amok was "deployed", with the other Wards, by Kevin before he set out to meet Foul.)

3. And furthermore, he could not reveal anything about his purpose (other than the fact that he was the Seventh Ward) or the location or nature of it, until the Power of Command was named.

Kevin evidently thought that those two conditions, with no additional qualifiers, sufficed to guard the EarthBlood from misuse. Amok's "choices", if any, IMO were irrelevant to the design or the outcome.

I'll be rereading TIW shortly.
But I have a question that I think is relevant here. Did Kevin have knowledge of white gold? Could he have foreseen that anything other than the knowledge contained in his Wards could awakened the krill?

I don't recall offhand if anything is mentioned in any of the books pertaining to the Old Lords and lack of/knowledge of white gold.

I beleive Bannor told TC that near the End..shortly before he Enacted the ROD, Kevin was Despairing for White Gold.

ur-bane wrote:I'll be rereading TIW shortly.
But I have a question that I think is relevant here. Did Kevin have knowledge of white gold? Could he have foreseen that anything other than the knowledge contained in his Wards could awakened the krill?

I don't recall offhand if anything is mentioned in any of the books pertaining to the Old Lords and lack of/knowledge of white gold.

The "Save or damn the Land" song must've come from somewhere, and I can't see it arising after the Ritual of Desecration.

I think Atiaran said in LFB that she had never seen white gold but 'It is said Berek knew of it and made the songs' so I guess Berek found out about it somehow and passed the knowledge on. When Kevin was in his deepest despair he probably thought White Gold could save the Land, if only he could get his hands on it!

Wayfriend wrote:Everyone in Revelstone by this point knew that Covenant was hanging about. If Amok, after departing, snooped around Revelstone for even a tiny bit, he would have become knowledgable. He would then confirm this by travelling the Land and witnessing the Despiser's armies, from which he would conclude that it was, indeed, save-or-damn time. His alternate condition would be met, so he'd catch up with TC in Revelwood and re-reveal himself.

Another side to this whole thing is the author building suspense and drama. Whatever the reasons are, he want's the reader to feel like Covenant is once again is causing things in the Land to be broken, that sacred things are being violated. The reader is to remain on the knife's edge as to whether Covenant is saving the Land or harming it. So we have the insinutation, but not the bold statement, that perhaps Kevin's plans for the Seventh Ward are gone awry.

Both good points, especially the 2nd. As I've said before, I think that there is a lot of tendancy to over-analysis here, that, fun as it is, may lead us to miss a vital point.

--A