Kevin's Watch

Personally I feel Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 are excellent dialogue games.

Lord Foul wrote:Well, not every game can be a Baldur's Gate 2 (which you should try, if you're into dialogue options).

True, but most RPGs are defined by their ability with dialogue options - you can express character that way.

I tell you what really damaged my enjoyment - an example. I'm in that swamp town and I walk up to a lady in a chuch and decide to talk to her. Now, I'm playing a callous mage, okay? When someone has something interesting to say, as you know, the word of the town is highlighted. So I click on it, next minute I am led on a dialogue journey where the end result is she is happy that I am willing to help free her husband from the clutches of an orc. Oblivion is like that - you are forced to play a good hero.

argh - I hate playing the good guy...

I would have ravished the woman - killed the husband, and danced to wild music around a fire where their heads are on pikes.


Oh.... we're about a game...

Oops...

Revan wrote:argh - I hate playing the good guy...

I would have ravished the woman - killed the husband, and danced to wild music around a fire where their heads are on pikes.


Oh.... we're about a game...

Oops...

Oblivion just lacks depth.

I agree that Oblivion is definitely not a dialogue-centric game, but I'll argue that it has depth. Surely, Oblivion does not rely on deep characterizations or great storytelling. But it's not that kind of RPG, and I think the developers knew that from square one. From the onset, the game was touted for its open-ended gameplay, the scope and magnitude of its environment, and a massive attention to detail and exploration. In that sense, Oblivion is a masterful product and Bethesda's finest game yet. In my opinion, it set out to top Morrowind and did so in every aspect.

Of course, RPGs are an acquired taste and everyone wants something different in them. I mean, I think Chrono Trigger is the greatest RPG ever, and the main character is *mute*.

Lord Foul wrote:I agree that Oblivion is definitely not a dialogue-centric game, but I'll argue that it has depth. Surely, Oblivion does not rely on deep characterizations or great storytelling. But it's not that kind of RPG, and I think the developers knew that from square one. From the onset, the game was touted for its open-ended gameplay, the scope and magnitude of its environment, and a massive attention to detail and exploration. In that sense, Oblivion is a masterful product and Bethesda's finest game yet. In my opinion, it set out to top Morrowind and did so in every aspect.

Yes, it has that. And I think it's a beautiful game. Just that, for me, RPing is dialogue.

God! DONT MAKE ME REINSTALL!!!! So close to doing it again. Foul, why this power over me?!!

Well, just give it time. I've uninstalled Baldur's Gate 2 about six times and at the moment it's installed on my hard drive. Don't be embarrassed if you have the same fits.

To be honest, if it weren't for the leveling up and stats, etc., I think you could call Oblivion an adventure game. It's basically a first-person Zelda. But I tell ya, as much as I love exploring Oblivion, nothing will ever capture the sense of wonder I had as a kid when exploring Hyrule in A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time. Ah man...maybe another topic there. Heh. No wonder my generation's lazy. Look at all the cool toys we had!

Traveling and exploring the world of Oblivion is quite fun, to be sure. The lack of dialogue options bothered me a little, then again they say actions count more than words, and I guess if you really don't want to help the elderly little woman to save her husband, a nice fireball in her face (or, to be stealthy, a sniper arrow from one of the roofs) ought to do the trick

Personally, what I find I need is more quests. They have created great quests (the final quest of the Thieves Guild in particular, together with most of the quests of the Dark Brotherhood, are spectacular) but it seems to me like there are not many independent side quests to choose from. I did like the Lovecraft spoof

Foul, after ten years, Torment is still my favourite computer RPG - I still reinstall it and play it once in a while, and somehow there are always things I didn't see before, dialogues I didn't know before, and so on. It took me six or seven games before I found out how to talk with Xeremiah (was that the name?), the corpse in the Mortuary who was one of those who had traveled with you... and I think the ability to finish the game with a conversation was a stroke of genius. That game IS the ultimate dialogue RPG, as far as I'm concerned

Reverendinium wrote:Personally I feel Knights of the Old Republic 1 & 2 are excellent dialogue games.

Don't know about 2, but I found the dialogue limiting in 1 myself.

(Have to play a good character in Oblivion? Loses 5 points on my anticipation scale.)

--A

Dialogue games? Dialogue games? Pick up Planescape:Torment and you'll see a dialogue game! That's the only game I ever played in which you could skip the final fight if you were persuasive enough with your words... and I loved how you could get more dialogue options still if you had high mental stats, so that replaying the game over and over would keep giving you new stuff to see! In my opinion, that is probably the best CRPG I've ever seen.

Xar wrote:Dialogue games? Dialogue games? Pick up Planescape:Torment and you'll see a dialogue game! That's the only game I ever played in which you could skip the final fight if you were persuasive enough with your words... and I loved how you could get more dialogue options still if you had high mental stats, so that replaying the game over and over would keep giving you new stuff to see! In my opinion, that is probably the best CRPG I've ever seen.

Finally, someone else who is Enlightened!

Lord Foul wrote:

Xar wrote:Dialogue games? Dialogue games? Pick up Planescape:Torment and you'll see a dialogue game! That's the only game I ever played in which you could skip the final fight if you were persuasive enough with your words... and I loved how you could get more dialogue options still if you had high mental stats, so that replaying the game over and over would keep giving you new stuff to see! In my opinion, that is probably the best CRPG I've ever seen.

Finally, someone else who is Enlightened!

Even seven years after the game was released, I still re-install it periodically to give it another run, and I STILL find new stuff every time! Plus, the story is one of the best, if not the best, I've ever seen for a CRPG...

Avatar wrote:Have to play a good character in Oblivion? Loses 5 points on my anticipation scale

I think I can agree with that. I picked a Spellsword for my character and I think its much-of-muchness feel has been a contributing factor in my inability to really get into the game.

Nav wrote:

Avatar wrote:Have to play a good character in Oblivion? Loses 5 points on my anticipation scale

I think I can agree with that. I picked a Spellsword for my character and I think its much-of-muchness feel has been a contributing factor in my inability to really get into the game.

It's overrated. The game feels more like you are in some narrow valley than some vast region. Towns are no more than five minutes apart, and there's no sense of economy or realism.

The economy part is almost exactly like Morrowind - while I find it difficult to believe they only use gold coins as currency, I guess it makes sense if you want to simplify the game for the non-economy-oriented players. But it's true that the area feels much smaller than Morrowind - fast-travel or not. Still, they said from the beginning that it would BE smaller than Morrowind as an area, and fast-travel makes it all the smaller.
It is also true that there are more things to see and find along the road than there are in Morrowind; my biggest problem with Oblivion, apart from the lack of dialogue (remember in Morrowind, where you could at least choose the topics to talk about by clicking on words on the NPC dialogues), is that it's pretty much a typical fantasy setting, which we've pretty much seen a lot in most RPGs... I can't help feeling that, however good Oblivion is, Morrowind was much better in terms of story and setting...

Xar wrote:I can't help feeling that, however good Oblivion is, Morrowind was much better in terms of story and setting...

Agreed.

Haven't been playing video games much, but when I do play it's Oblivion.

I think Bethesda really refined their formula, making the fighting/sneaking/magic-using elements a lot more enjoyable. Combat is no longer the old EverQuest hit-hit-hit-hit from Morrowind, nor is traveling or questing a tedious affair. Morrowind often made me look on the Internet just to find some blasted cave in the middle of some gray-ish brown plain! Speaking of which: the world seems less barren than Morrowind. I suppose the presence of forests helps that fact a lot. Love just walking around, marveling at the architecture or the vegetation. Can't believe people made this. Also can't believe my comp can comfortably run it.

I agree the story and lore isn't up to par with Morrowind's, though that's not why I bought the game. Heck, haven't even done the main quest; just been wandering around, doing short excursions into dungeons, visiting sights/places/whatnot. Will probably take up the main quest once the expansion is announced.

Another plus: Oblivion is going to save me a lot of money, as I'll probably still be playing it when the big wave of games hit this October. Nothing on the horizon seems as interesting or appealing to me.

Yeah, but for a game that attempts to 'simulate' a fantasy continent/realm, it fails miserably. There's no sense of immersion. Hell, Boiling Point renders 250 sq kilometers of terrain with better forests. If I play an RPG I want to experience the world, to believe it, not have to lie to myself whilst I play it ('oh, dialogue isn't bad'; 'who cares the towns are so close', etc). The dungeons have no point, and are so similar it's not funny. Don't get me started on the level fixing of the enemy - it's terrible.

It's really just doom with swords; it's not an rpg.

My two cents.

Lore, not arguing you. I enjoy the game; you don't for your reasons. Either that or you're just trying to keep yourself from re-installing.

Lord Foul wrote:Lore, not arguing you. I enjoy the game; you don't for your reasons. Either that or you're just trying to keep yourself from re-installing.

I'm not assuming it was an argument. I'm just stating why I think the game is poor. Called an opinion .