Kevin's Watch

Also keep in mind that Kevin was a seer, but not an oracle. It must have been apparent to him that Elena would use the Earthblood, that he would have to create Amok so that she could do so. It probably drove him crazy, because even though he knew it would happen, he knew it was a mistake. Unless, of course, he saw even farther than that, and realized that without the breaking of the Law of Death....
Spoiler









Covenant would not come back as one of the dead, and defeat Foul once more. Likewise, the original Staff would not be destroyed, Vain wouldn't be created, and all in all, Covenant might have never returned to the Land!

Also, I believe it was Elena that said that some believed Kevin commited the Ritual out of neccessity, so that the final destruction of Foul might be accomplished.

Whew! That's all for now.

-B

I don't think there's any evidence that Kevin saw all that. Who can say what may have flashed into his vision?

It's possible that Kevin knew the Earthblood would be required to defeat Foul, but not all the consequences that would occur in the meantime.

Baradakas:

If Kevin saw all that, then he'd have seen Linden's role and Covenant's intent and wouldn't have appeared to her in Andelain, saying what he said.

If Kevin saw all that, then he'd have seen Linden's role and Covenant's intent and wouldn't have appeared to her in Andelain, saying what he said.

Good point Dromond...


I'll take Akasri's view then.

mabey all Kevin knew was what the earth-blood did and speculated on how to use it. In theory, it could be used simmilar as the <i>Illearth</i> Stone, except only after collecting it in a container. Or did Amok say that it was too powerfull to be kept in one? Anyway, if covenant had brought soem Tupperware to the land, it would have contained it.

Ryzel wrote:I do not know if the Power of Command can be rightly termed as knowledge, but in the case of something like Kevin's Lore it could be argued that knowlegde (lore) IS power.

The name of the Power of Command, which was so central to obtaining its use, was a knowledge that was power. And Bannor and Morin treated it with the same reluctance they had for all knowledge and power that was not the Vow, until Covenant invoked the Vow itself to compel them.

After the Desecration the Bloodguard had taken on the additional job description of "most loyal opposition". Here it failed. Again.

Poor sumbitches.

Having to name the Power of Command to gain access to it was an artifice created by Kevin to keep some poor wandering schmuck from happening on it and warping the world forever.

Kevin deliberately hid this Power from the rest of the world, so only those who followed his Wards could find and unlock its secrets. He had intended those who possessed the first six Wards to invoke Amok through activating the krill, assuming that those capable of doing so would be ready to access the Power of Command. He did not take into account the wild magic which short-circuited his Lore progression.

While he did understand that knowledge gained too quickly was perilous, I think Kevin took a gamble that was sourced in Despair, he lost, and was made forever bitter by his failure to see that his choice was ill-conceived.

I do not think he foresaw anything beyond his choice to perform the RoD, because he had mistakenly pinned all of his hope on destroying Foul.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:Having to name the Power of Command to gain access to it was an artifice created by Kevin to keep some poor wandering schmuck from happening on it and warping the world forever.

Actually, it was impossible for your basic wanderer to stumble onto the EarthBlood. Damelon's Door prevented this. You could not get to the EarthBlood without going through Damelon's Door, and only Amok knew how to open it. If anyone just stumbled onto the Door, they would be forever lost, and would never run across the EarthBlood.

In fact, even if you had mastered all of Kevin's Wards, knew the name of the EarthBlood, and knew where to find it, you still couldn't get through the Door unless Amok opened it for you. Which, of course, he would, if you had mastered the Wards. But a wanderer couldn't get in.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:I do not think he foresaw anything beyond his choice to perform the RoD, because he had mistakenly pinned all of his hope on destroying Foul.

I still say we have to take this with a grain of salt. After all, it is Foul himself who told us that, after he laughed, there was "doubt in [Kevin's] face before the end." Foul may have been embellishing, lying, wrong, or something, but I don't believe Kevin was surprised that Foul wasn't dying. The reason I don't believe this is that Kevin knew that the PoC could not destroy Foul. And if he was too afraid of the PoC to use it, but not too afraid of the RoD to use it, the PoC might be more powerful. It certainly seems more powerful to me. So why would he expect the lesser power to destroy Foul when he knew the greater could not?

But if what you say is true, it doesn't sync with the nasty confrontation Kevin has with Linden, unless you think Kevin was somehow prodding her to eventually do the right thing, and I didn't get that from my read.

All encounters with Kevin's shade paint him as a very bitter person who doesn't think anyone can master Foul, because he couldn't. I don't think Kevin is a villain, but he is a failed hero that never learned his lesson [what the Creator called "the habit of despair"]. I don't think the relative strengths of the PoC versus the RoD had anything to do with why Kevin chose to do what he did.

I think at the time that Kevin invoked the RoD (with Foul's gleeful participation) he either wasn't thinking clearly, he didn't care, or he was desperate to do anything to strike out at Foul, recklessly regardless of the consequences. His extremity I think was because he had been complacent or unaware enough to allow Foul right onto his Council of Lords. Imagine the feelings of betrayal and self-blame from unknowingly allowing your worst enemy to work alongside you as your friend and confidant.

The fact that he sent the Bloodguard and the Ranyhyn away implies that he wanted to try and preserve something, but with this supposedly well-meaning action he started the doubt that led to the eventual downfall of the Vow. Everything Kevin did was tainted, and that had to have galled him, even beyond the grave. And Foul just kept using him and laughing.

Even after the Illearth Stone was destroyed and he could no longer be compelled directly to do Foul's will, he appeared to Linden of his own volition and planted nasty seeds of doubt, because he still thought he was doing the right thing, still trying to save the Land, and still almost messing it up in the worst possible way.

Tragic. Not villainous, but horribly counter-productive. I think Kevin has to be Foul's biggest success. Kevin's entire life and afterlife seem committed to unwittingly helping Foul do the worst possible things. Has to be one haunted soul. Tragic.

And Kevin appeared to Linden in Andelain as though he were, in some way or other, among her personal Dead. It seems likely that on the "medical" view of the relationship between the Land and our world ("we're both tied into the same unconscious process"), Kevin is a refraction of Linden's father. (And perhaps of Linden's black moods themselves...recall the sequence where she is reliving her father's death in her mind and attempting Ceer's life because she can't save him.)

Though Unbelief is no longer at issue in the Second Chronicles, the worlds are still connected on the unseen side of the ontological tapestry that includes them both.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:But if what you say is true, it doesn't sync with the nasty confrontation Kevin has with Linden, unless you think Kevin was somehow prodding her to eventually do the right thing, and I didn't get that from my read.

No, I certainly didn't get that from my read either! And to address most of your post, I'll give my overall theory of Kevin again, because I'm not sure you were a member the last time I gave it. Furls Fire hasn't been able to talk any sense into me - maybe you'll have more luck.

I think Foul was brilliant beyond brilliant, and hugely powerful (I sure wish we knew what his personal powers are!!), in Kevin's time. Even though Kevin knew a gigantic enemy was coming, even making his Wards just in case he was defeated by this enemy, he didn't see Foul sitting, literally, at his right hand. By the time they were at open war, Foul was too well entrenched, knew too much about Kevin's abilities and strategies, was able to betray Kevin in too many important ways... Basically, the outcome was a foregone conclusion.

Mind you, Kevin was the mightiest defender the Land had ever known. Even if he knew from the start that he was going to lose, he put up one hell of a fight. He tried everything that he knew, which, with full mastery of the Staff of Law and Loric's krill, was considerable. Their battles were gigantic!!

But in the end, Kevin knew that he could not win. Foul was going to gain supreme control of the Land, making it a living Hell forever (unless some force from outside the Land came to rescue it at some point), and there was nothing he could do about it.

Except... Well, there were a couple of things that were nearly unthinkable. One was the Power of Command. But he knew that it could not destroy Foul, and no other Command he could think of seemed like a sure way of defeating him. And probably more important, the consequences of any Command were truly unforseeable. Even a simple, and well-intentioned Command might have grave consequences. So this wasn't really an option.

The other possibility was the Ritual of Desecration. Though it could not destroy Foul (even the PoC couldn't do that), it could hurt him. The Land, of course, would be damaged beyond recognition, and beyond contemplation. But these consequences were known! The damage would heal, and people could return after a certain amount of time. And they could relearn his Lore.

The questions was, would that happen before Foul returned to his power? Would they master the 6 Wards, and be able to wield the krill, before Foul came back and wiped them out? If not, then Foul would end up ruling the Land anyway. Or, maybe they would do all that, and therefore have the Power of Command, but still wouldn't be able to figure out a good, safe way to use it either. So they'd be right where he was.

But maybe they would be able to figure out a use for the PoC, or maybe they'd be able to spot Foul long before he did, so that he wouldn't be in such an incredible position.

The uncertainty of it all was very frustrating, but there was no uncertainty of what would happen if he didn't invoke the Ritual, and Foul became the ruler of the Land. And so, stricken with grief beyond anything any of us have ever known, he did it. In order to give it at least the possibility of a better future, he did it. Could he have possibly NOT fallen into despair? His connection with the Land and the Earthpower was extraordinary, and he was about to do this hideous thing. Probably not different from sacrificing some of your children to save the others. Who would not lose their mind at such a thing? Tragic, indeed.

And unfortunately, he was not healed by death. He was made a literal slave of Foul, thanks to Elena. And I guess the next 3500 years didn't help either. So he wasn't emotionally well when he met Linden in Andelain, on top of the fact that he somehow knew Covenant's plan! A plan that even Covenant said was as risky as could be, and Foul could have had it all if he'd just

Spoiler

dismissed the shade-Covenant.

As simple as that, and he would have been able to destroy the Arch of Time. Even if he proved no match for the Creator, the Land and its Earth would be rubble.

So there's an alternate possibility for Kevin. No evidence supports it, but the evidence of the more accepted version is Foul, the lord of lies, and legends of unknown origin. Legends that have been wrong before. I like my story better.

So by that explanation, Kevin was a control freak that felt things spinning out of his control? I'll buy that. He decided to destroy the Land and reduce Foul instead of letting him have it whole, sort of like poisoning all the wells just before the enemy troops move in.

And because he was intimate with the many shadings of despair, or maybe using some sort of beyond-the-grave vision, he knew what Covenant intended to do, but what was his motive for appearing to Linden?

Was it because TC's gambit to give the ring away, die, then stand and defend as a shade was too uncertain, implying a lack of control that Kevin instinctively hated?

Or was it because he foresaw TC's action without seeing (or acknowledging, understanding, or approving of) his underlying hope? [again the "habit of despair"]

Or was it some hugely tainted vindictive attitude? (I couldn't save the Land, and I was extremely powerful....you are going to give Foul exactly what he wants, and you think you can do what I couldn't?)

Ironically, this leads me to wonder if Lord Foul really IS the dark side of Covenant's nature. It looks to me like TC did to Foul exactly what Foul had been doing to the people of the Land all along: he used Foul's very own nature [perfectionist] against him to turn him into the thing he hated most [flawed through making a poor decision--not banishing Cov's shade before he strove to shatter the AoT].

I realize that this may seem off topic, but it's possible that Covenant was able to understand Foul in a way that no one before had bothered try. One thing that TC did unconsciously by thinking of Foul as his own dark side was make him conquerable. The Lords of the Land were convinced that no force could destroy Foul, as he was protected by the very Law that held the Earth together. Covenant made it personal, and forced Foul into a more mortal [and fallible] persona.

Could Kevin just have been spitting supernatural 'sour grapes' about not figuring that out himself, trying instead to wield his mighty Earthpower-borne abilities against one who was protected by that same Earthpower? That sounds really petty, I know, but Kevin was a little by the end of things, don't you think?

And Dukkha rambles on....

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:So by that explanation, Kevin was a control freak that felt things spinning out of his control? I'll buy that.

Although that's a possibility, it's not at all what I have in mind. I'm saying he loved the Land as much as anyone, that he was a wonderful person. He was just outclassed, and maybe had some blind spots/weaknesses. In the end, he had to choose between a) handing the Land over to Foul, and b) causing unimaginable damage to the Land, in the hope that made the most difficult decision possible -

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:He decided to destroy the Land and reduce Foul instead of letting him have it whole, sort of like poisoning all the wells just before the enemy troops move in.

hmmm... I think it's a little different. What you describe seems done more out of spite. In my theory, Kevin did it because, though he knew the Land would suffer horribly, he hoped it would recover - and give rise to defenders even more wise and powerful than himself - faster than Foul recovered.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:And because he was intimate with the many shadings of despair, or maybe using some sort of beyond-the-grave vision, he knew what Covenant intended to do,

I've never had a theory of how Kevin knew Covenant's plan, but those are good thoughts. Maybe, since he invented them, he could smell a desperate, highly dangerous plan a mile off.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:but what was his motive for appearing to Linden?

Again, all of your suggestions are possible, even more than one at a time. And I think they can all be in addition to the fact that Kevin just wanted to stop Covenant, because Covenant's plan was damned dangerous!!

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:I realize that this may seem off topic, but it's possible that Covenant was able to understand Foul in a way that no one before had bothered try. One thing that TC did unconsciously by thinking of Foul as his own dark side was make him conquerable. The Lords of the Land were convinced that no force could destroy Foul, as he was protected by the very Law that held the Earth together. Covenant made it personal, and forced Foul into a more mortal [and fallible] persona.

Nice thoughts!

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:Could Kevin just have been spitting supernatural 'sour grapes' about not figuring that out himself, trying instead to wield his mighty Earthpower-borne abilities against one who was protected by that same Earthpower? That sounds really petty, I know, but Kevin was a little by the end of things, don't you think?

Yes, I sure do think! By any theory, even mine, which gives Kevin the benefit of the doubt right through his decision to invoke the Ritual, he would have been nearly insane with grief after actually doing it. Then there's what Elena caused to happen to him, followed by sitting in the Dead Zone for millennia, watching the Sunbane slowly take over and torture the Land that he so loved. We're lucky he was at all coherent in Andelain! At this point, any of your suggestions could be right, including the sour grapes. Which would be a shame. Covenant had the advantage of being from outside the box, making him able to see some things more easily.

And perhaps Kevin had the disadvantage of having had his Lore and title handed to him. If there's an advantage to having to figure things out for yourself, then Kevin didn't have it. Of course, we don't know what Lore he discovered, but I assume the majority came from his father, grandfather, and great grandfather. He probably didn't have to think outside the box all that often. And shouldn't beat himself up for not having figured out what Covenant did.

DukkhaWaynhim wrote:And Dukkha rambles on....

Ah, but delightfully so!! Thanks!!