What Do You Think Today?

Post by **peter** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 5:56 pm

Can't help but agree on the ineptness, but I think Nigel Farage [UKIP] does have plenty of charisma - the only trouble is that it's the type of charisma better suited to a 'Carry On' film rather than a real political party!

Post by **michaelm** » Tue Feb 24, 2015 8:20 pm

peter wrote:Can't help but agree on the ineptness, but I think Nigel Farage [UKIP] does have plenty of charisma - the only trouble is that it's the type of charisma better suited to a 'Carry On' film rather than a real political party!

I was more thinking of the positive connotations of charisma...but I like the Carry On comparison. Oooh Matron, noooo!

Post by **peter** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 5:16 pm

Well any party who has to sack their chairman for innapropriately 'handling' the female prospective MP's whose name happened to be Roger Bird [I kid you not!] could hardly avoid the comparison.

Post by **michaelm** » Wed Feb 25, 2015 10:12 pm

peter wrote: Well any party who has to sack their chairman for innapropriately 'handling' the female prospective MP's whose name happened to be Roger Bird [I kid you not!] could hardly avoid the comparison.

Cue Sid James' laughter...

Post by **peter** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:14 am

The wolves begin to circle in the British press scenting the blood of another high-profile celebrity that can be slaughtered upon the alter of mitigating the success of Jimmy Saville in evading capture for his crimes [by having the rescourcefulnes to die before being 'collared'].

This time it's none other than the venerable [but ever youthfull] Sir Cliff Richard himself. Will this Peter Pan of Pop [or Pulpit - I forget] emerge with his reputation unscathed [by slaying the demon of scurulous press rumor with the clean sword of truth and justice {and a healthy dose of Botox}] or will he be immured in chains with the cry of 'Take Him Down' ringing in his ears as he follows his erstwhile celebrity peers Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall and [It's (not so) good to be back] Garry Glitter down the long-walk of shame to a delux suite in Ford Open Prison [room service extra] to langish on an arrow pattern chaise-lounge untill the heat has died down.

The pattern of press activity is to date following the usual modus- operandi. First the candidate is presented with sympathy [those horrid police-nasty-men, making their horrid investigations into our national traesure, Sir Cliff, Rolf or whatever], then gradually over the months the tone and the type of accompanying pictures [from angelic butter wouldn't melt to demonic dirty old mac examples - they have them all on file for use as needed] metamorphoses untill eventially you would rather entrust your grand-daughter to Adolph Eichmann for the night than to the figure they have created.

I don't know if Sir Cliff has been monkeying around or not - but I really don't like the 'trial by jounalism' culture that has emerged that puts newspaper sales before anything approaching moral rightness in the way people are treated. If the guy is guilty then I guess we'll be able to say "he had it coming", if not then may his God help him" [seriously].

Website · Post by **Iolanthe** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:02 pm

Seriously, I simply don't believe it. I found out on facebook that he was being accused of something, don't know what. I've had a signed photograph of him since I was 10 and have followed him ever since, although not to the extent of going to concerts etc. There hasn't been a whiff of scandal in the 50+ years that he's been on the public stage as far as I'm aware, although the press have tried hard to find something and presumably failed.

Post by **I'm Murrin** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 5:24 pm

peter wrote:monkeying around

Is this how you usually talk about child abuse?

Post by **Savor Dam** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:02 pm

No, "monkeying around" is not a synonym for such. Even Uncle Ernie (the pederast in Tommy) phrased it "fiddle about..."

Post by **michaelm** » Thu Mar 05, 2015 9:13 pm

I agree - there's no reason why innocent until proven guilty should be suspended just because of the nature of the alleged crimes or the fame of the accused.

Look at Operation Ore - something like almost 8,000 arrests were made in the UK because of the testimony from the Texas Postmaster General and an FBI agent that anyone who accessed the payment portal that served some child porn sites must have accessed those sites. Something like a few hundred people were charged, and there was even a class action lawsuit from those who were innocent, but it didn't come to anything as the two US government employees refused to testify and the UK government refused to extradite them.

The tabloids were all over that and vilified the handful of celebrities who were caught up in it. I think only one (Chris Langham) was actually caught with anything, and Pete Townsend admitted to it without them finding any evidence. Robert Del Naja from Massive Attack had his home raided but nothing was found, and the band had their work visas revoked for an Australian tour even though he hadn't been charged with anything.

I know freedom of speech and all that, but I wish that there were press blackouts on things like this so that people get the fair trial that they are entitled to.

Post by **peter** » Fri Mar 06, 2015 5:38 pm

Savor Dam wrote:No, "monkeying around" is not a synonym for such. Even Uncle Ernie (the pederast in Tommy) phrased it "fiddle about..."

I apologise if I have been remiss in my terminology; I'm unfamiliar with the correct way of refering to this difficult subject while still striking the correct balance for what I'm trying to say.

Post by **sgt.null** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:08 am

I am a huge fan of the Cockney Rebel song, Make Me Smile. the vid on youtube I watch the most is introduced by Jimmy Saville. from the comments on the vid I had assumed he had been found guilty, is this not the case?

Post by **peter** » Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:28 am

There were persistant rumours about his activities while he was alive Sarge but he was very agressive in either threatening or bringing litigation into play very quickly so that they were rapidly quashed. Also he weilded great power in the BBC [again I believe] such that he was able to ride-out or ride-over any claims of impropriety. Conequently, at the time of his death his guilt had never been formally established in a Court of Law, but subsequent to this the [putative] horror story that was his life began to emerge. It is in the light of this episode that numbers of high profile individuals have been tried for crimes of this nature, some to be found guilty and others to have been cleared or had the charges dropped.

Post by **sgt.null** » Sat Mar 21, 2015 4:44 pm

well I know they arrested Gary Glitter....

thanks for the info.

Post by **peter** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:41 am

Gary Glitter has just, in the last week or two been sent to jail for a good long stretch.

Post by **peter** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:08 am

Every day I have to look at this bollocks and it's starting to piss me off. In our shop we've had to place blinds in front of all the cigarettes and we are not allowed to open them unless and untill someone asks for a particular brand in a quantity that we have. If we don't have that specific product [say 20 B&H] we are not allowed to offer another [say 10]. If people ask for 'the cheapest 10 cigarettes' we sell, we cant tell them [we can offer them a printed list to read from]. We can't open the shutters for them to see the wares behind. We are not allowed to have the multipacks visible behind the counter when we fill the gantry.

I've got no problem with any of that. The idea is to stop young people [and others] from seeing the products, getting interested and 'giving it a try'. I'm not sure that this is how it works - I think most young people encounter cigarettes via their peer groups and family but hey.

Now here's what gets to me. Next to the shutters but ehtierly visible to all and sundry are some snazzily designed 'inhalers'; products that deliver a 'nicotine-hit' that mimics a smoke inhalation, but with vapour and flavourings instead. Next to the brightly coloured holders we sell bubble-gum flavoured, cola flavured, energy-drink, cherry and menthol flavoured liquid inserts for the holders, which contain the nicotene and the particular flavouring. You can also buy regular tobacco flavoured inserts in all the different strengths, which we also sell.

These products are marketed as devices to 'wean people off' cigarettes - and in fairness they do have some sucess in this - but the interest shown in them by the youth [18+] group far outweighs this and they function, rather than as a means of helping people quit, as an active inducement to bring them to a 'half-way house' where they are ready to start smoking proper. And the flavours on offer are specifically designed to lure young people in for this purpose. I've had young adults purchasing these items who've never had a cigarette just for the 'cool' factor.

Now come on. I fhtese alternative products are going to be marketed it must be in a way that does not serve to encourage the activity that all the other legislation is designed to stop or the whole thing becomes a nonsense [if it isn't already].

Post by **aliantha** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:19 pm

And the vaping liquids are not exactly chemical-free, as I understand it.

None of this surprises me. One of the provisions of the US government's settlement with Big Tobacco was that the cigarette companies had to shell out for anti-smoking PSAs. I read a news report later that said the scripts of the Big Tobacco-financed PSAs were written to include phrasing that was designed to be ineffective.

Post by **peter** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 11:54 am

We have lost, in our society [the UK I refer to rather than the States where the quality has always been given greater emphasis] the atribute of respect.

I don't mean respect 'person to person' so much as a generalised respect for the value of other peoples time and effort, their sensibilities, their 'right' to be considered. At work, people throw their hand-towels on the floor in the vicinity of the basket after they have used the 'facilities'. They empty their rubbish and ashtrays in the car-park. Prospective employers no longer feel the need to give even the briefest of response to applicants for jobs, no 'thank-you for your application but....', just 'chuck 'em in the bin and forget 'em'. In the cinema you are faced with a barage of talking, mobile phones ringing, and pop-corn rustling to the point where you give up going, and in the shops people feel no need to restrain either thier own or their childrens behaviour when it comes to taking items from the shelves and then abandoning it wherever they choose [irrespective of whether it is frozen, chilled or whatever.

Behavior is like water, it flows down-hill. It takes effort to maintain or even improve it, but it is effort that repays us all in the long-run. Alas it appears it is an effort we are no longer prepared to make.

Post by **michaelm** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:19 pm

Peter, I can testify that all of those things are true in the US that you listed for the UK, at least here where I live. I think while I lived in NH it wasn't quite so bad, but in NC and SC all of those things above are equally true here.

Post by **Orlion** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:26 pm

Yeah... and to tie it in with the vape-inhalers, people do not see the need to refrain from using them and blowing a massive cloud of nicotine filled vapor on at or around anyone around them. "What's wrong?" they guffaw pretentiously, " It's just water vapor!"

"And you're just a dumb ass!" I should retort, but I refrain... being a reader, not a fighter.

Luckily, there is starting to be an online slew of articles addressing this. Maybe for once, the younger generation will be more respectful than their elders... pretty sad that the Internet has take the place of parents, though.

Website · Post by **Iolanthe** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:51 pm

Totally agree Peter.

Vaping - I do it regularly - haven't had a cigarette or wanted one since 3rd August last year, but I do tend to treat my inhalers as I did cigarettes - no vaping in crowded areas, indoors etc. except at home. I have reaped physical benefits from vaping as opposed to smoking. It remains to be seen whether there are any slowly developing bad effects.

Behaviour. As someone who says pardon when they burp even when there's no-one else around, I detest the sort of behaviour you describe. Manners were seemingly drilled into me from birth - put your rubbish in your pocket and put it in the bin when you get home, always say please and thank you etc. You may laugh, but it costs nothing to be polite, and little effort to think of the effect your actions have on other people! But it is across the board. My neighbour, slightly older than me, from my first house laughed at me when I chased a crisp packet that my son had dropped from his pushchair, and she regularly chucked her chip paper over the railway bridge on the way home after a night out. The absolute worse thing is people throwing their cigarette ends out of car windows, whether stationary or moving.

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What Do You Think Today?