Kevin's Watch

It's good to see you have a strategy, Lady R! Also glad to hear you are not paying doctors to mis-diagnose you (not that I'm passing judgement on anyone, as I have no idea what I'm talking about ).

I have never really had depression (touch wood) apart from a day or so a year. On that day, I become absorbed in my own situation and inadequacy. I don't know why it happens - perhaps it's a purge of sorts...

Anyway, whatever! I prefer to stay (no, not on drugs! That's not what I was implying dammit! I really just mean "loopy" )

Hey Lady Revel, I know some of what you are talking about. There are sources of depression that the medical paradigm has no room for. You weren't around when I started this thread (it's a bit out there, but you never know )

My experience of uni-polar depression (that's a nice clinical term for feeling very down ) has been sustained and intense. In the long-term it has come down to management techniques like you mentioned above. My own include a support network that it took me years to build: a therapist, an osteopath and (at different times) another alternative therapist (homeopath, Aura Soma, kinesiologist, energy healer etc.). Three is the number that works for me but it's a very individual process. You'll notice that there is no one from the medical paradigm in there; they simply do not have the apparatus to deal with the psycho/spiritual material involved.

Depression is a funny (weird) beast. It is such an opportunity to learn, but such a bastard to extricate yourself/myself from in the long-term. I have recently had to consciously shed some protective techniques because I was simply feeling better. My default experience was that I would feel bad: in company, in the bar, on the street etc. but because I feel (relatively) better, those techniques that previously protected me are now inhibiting me. But, those techniques have kept me safe. They are what have enabled me to feel better and now I am supposed to discard them! It feels like a betrayal of sort. Weird!

I'm now mildly suspicious of anyone who has never experienced depression (except Fist ). It's as if there is a limb that they have, that they are not aware of and have never used (mine is like Rocky's ). My experience of depression is that it has made me more sensitive, more empathetic, more accepting, more tolerant, more patient, more aware, more gentle, more compassionate, more open, more understanding, more humble. More human. More.

ussusimiel

P.S. I have read and appreciated this thread from very soon after I joined this forum. It is true community like this that makes the Watch such a special place. You all have my gratitude.

I do not think that having difficulty shedding the behaviors that have kept you safe and allowed you to heal weird at all. I know of which you speak. However, you and I both know that you do have to change in order to keep healing, and the need to continue doing something that may be holding you back, even though you NEEDED it at one time, will pass.

And I agree with you wholeheartedly about the feelings of more regarding other people. When someone is rude, I immediately think about what could be going on in their life that I don't know about....and I try to handle it without it being a personal affront. Because I think often, people are just hurting inside so much, they don't have the ability to feel the needs of others around them.

Nice talking to you, U. I am so glad we are both feeling better and finding ways to handle our depression.

Krazy Kat wrote:

Cambo wrote:Lorin -

Surprisingly I've not had any major struggle with depression over the course of this whole sudden illness/girlfriend leaving thing. I've been sad, scared, worried, and in pain, but not depressed. Too busy just dealing with what's in front of me maybe.

Seems like everytime I click on a thread I get this depressing shit.

Avatar wrote:Don't click on threads called "Depression" then.

--A

imgur.com/7jRKAAg

Lady Revel wrote:Nice talking to you, U. I am so glad we are both feeling better and finding ways to handle our depression.

Thanks for providing the opportunity for me to post in this thread, I have wanted to for some time.

You too rock, Lady Revel

u.

What's with this love fest guys? We're supposed to be all isolated and mopey and shit.

Seriously though, this is why I love this thread and think that talking about mental illness is so important. It's often hard to expose yourself at the most vulnerable. But nothing says "you are not alone" like that moment when you recognise your experience in someone else's mind.

Sheesh, I dunno if I'd call it mental illness. I mean, I suppose in a sense it is, the way that flu is physical illness. But the negative connotations are pretty strong.

--A

Avatar wrote:Sheesh, I dunno if I'd call it mental illness. I mean, I suppose in a sense it is, the way that flu is physical illness. But the negative connotations are pretty strong.

--A

Sure, there's a stigma around that phrase. But I think depression is demonstrably a mental illness. The medical profession agrees; if you get diagnosed, a doctor will prescribe you medication only people with depression are allowed. I can take a medical certificate into work and they have to give me sick leave. Most importantly, it's a condition that skews your perceptions of reality in a pathological way.

And it's not necessarily a bad thing for a condition that causes people to slit their wrists or jump off a building to have some strong connotations attached to it!

The negative connotations seem to be strong because we as a culture perceive and portray mental illness very differently from physical illness. It's okay to be diagnosed with and treated for diabetes, but don't go revealing in public that you're bipolar or suffer from anxiety or depression. And I'm not talking about worrying a bit or feeling sometimes sad. I'm talking about long-term clinical and chemical realities. If it's an illness of the mental realm, guess what, it's mental illness and we shouldn't have a problem calling it that. I think also, that people tend to subconsciously and or consciously think of the extremes when hearing the words 'mental illness'. But, just like any phenomena, they exist along a spectrum, and being dynamic in nature, also vary within their position on the spectrum!

As for comparing long term /chronic unipolar depression to the flu, that's not a great analogy imho.

Sorry Av, if this is a bit terse /harsh. It's a button-pressing area. I can give you a list of other areas of you want to dodge the bullets in the future

ETA: Seems Mr Cambo beat me to it.

Shaun das Schaf wrote:The negative connotations seem to be strong because we as a culture perceive and portray mental illness very differently from physical illness. It's okay to be diagnosed with and treated for diabetes, but don't go revealing in public that you're bipolar or suffer from anxiety or depression. And I'm not talking about worrying a bit or feeling sometimes sad. I'm talking about long-term clinical and chemical realities. If it's an illness of the mental realm, guess what, it's mental illness and we shouldn't have a problem calling it that. I think also, that people tend to subconsciously and or consciously think of the extremes when hearing the words 'mental illness'. But, just like any phenomena, they exist along a spectrum, and being dynamic in nature, also vary within their position on the spectrum!

As for comparing long term /chronic unipolar depression to the flu, that's not a great analogy imho.

Sorry Av, if this is a bit terse /harsh. It's a button-pressing area. I can give you a list of other areas of you want to dodge the bullets in the future

ETA: Seems Mr Cambo beat me to it.

Thanks for the back-up Shawn And that's a great point about people thinking immediately of extremes when they hear the words mental illness. My depression is a lot more serious than a case of flu, but it's nowhere near as serious as the guy who freaked out at work cause the computers were talking to him, then locked the manager into the cash office and ranted to her about Buddhism. Oh wait, that was me too.

And I wouldn't worry about Av- I'm sure you didn't hurt his feelings. Right Av?

I don't bother dodging. I'm pretty bulletproof.

Anyway, you misunderstood my analogy. I mean in the sense that there is some sort of actual "error" or fault in the usual bio-chemical or electrical operation of the brain. In fact, if this is the case, then mental illness is actually physical illness after all.

--A

Guess it came across - at least to me - as a bit dismissive. Most people don't have the flu for life. You're bedridden for a few days and then off you go again. Be awesome if that were the case with mental illness. Sadly it isn't.

But anyway, glad to hear you're bullet proof. I'll have to try poison next time Knowing you though, you've got the constitution of an Ox!

Cambo, I'll be billing you for a new tablet (computer not medicine) since this one now has half masticated pasta on its screen. (Eating when I read your post.) Have you considered stand up?

Feel free to bill me for tablet Shaun. I'll pay for it out of my stand up earnings

Crap. Something tells me I might be receiving the box without the tablet.

(Not questioning your comedic skills, just acknowledging the time it takes for genius to be recognized and translated into mega fame/bucks. )

Good to-and-fro about depression, Guys! (says u in Avatar-mode ).

I agree that the stigma around depression is very strong. There's a sense that once a person 'gets' it that they are 'broken' and will never be 'right' again afterwards. This is a 'winner'/'loser' approach to depression, where those who experience depression are categorically seen as the 'losers'. There is no general perception of the benefits that experiencing depression brings (as I mentioned above).

With regard to chronic unipolar depression I am very careful (now!) about the language I use in relation to it. I now always use the words 'experience', 'engage with', 'indulge', 'immerse myself in' when I am talking about depression and how it is present in my life. It took me years to dig myself out of the position of 'victim' which the phrase 'suffering from depression' mired me in. One of the key stages in my engagement with the reality of my situation was taking more and more personal reponsibility for it, the whole lot of it! That was hard, very hard. It's like some sort of nightmare to be faced with having to accept that much of the suffering I had gone through was self-inflicted

Depression is a tough experience on its own terms, when I surround it with powerfully negative language and perceive it as a social stigma, I simply inflate it to a point where it seems/feels overwhelming.

u.

Shaun das Schaf wrote:I'll have to try poison next time Knowing you though, you've got the constitution of an Ox!

Just call me Rasputin.

ussusimiel wrote:There's a sense that once a person 'gets' it that they are 'broken' and will never be 'right' again afterwards.

Y'see though, this is part of what I was saying...I get that sense from the people who suffer from it.

There's nothing wrong with being depressed sometimes. You can get past it, and I should know.

With regard to chronic unipolar depression I am very careful (now!) about the language I use in relation to it.

Not me. I'm famously insensitive.

Oh...you were talking about to yourself...

I now always use the words 'experience', 'engage with', 'indulge', 'immerse myself in' when I am talking about depression and how it is present in my life. It took me years to dig myself out of the position of 'victim' which the phrase 'suffering from depression' mired me in. One of the key stages in my engagement with the reality of my situation was taking more and more personal responsibility for it, the whole lot of it! That was hard, very hard. It's like some sort of nightmare to be faced with having to accept that much of the suffering I had gone through was self-inflicted

Depression is a tough experience on its own terms, when I surround it with powerfully negative language and perceive it as a social stigma, I simply inflate it to a point where it seems/feels overwhelming.

Really excellently put. I think I couldn't agree more. Sometimes we're our own worst enemy. And we should stop that sort of thing.

--A

Avatar wrote:Y'see though, this is part of what I was saying...I get that sense from the people who suffer from it.

I'm sure sometimes you do. I've felt that way before. And it's a bullshit illusion, but it feels pretty real and irrevocable (to borrow one of Donaldson's favourite words). But that's neither here nor there when it comes to the status of depression of a mental illness. Illnesses don't necessarily break people. I know now that my depression won't break me any more than Crohns disease will. But they are both ongoing and fairly serious conditions I expect to deal with for most of my life. That's what makes it an illness.

Cambo wrote: I'm sure sometimes you do. I've felt that way before. And it's a bullshit illusion, but it feels pretty real and irrevocable...

Sure, I've felt it myself...and that's again my point...it is an illusion. And knowing that is half the battle, however it may feel.

Unless somebody has a physical defect or abnormality that prevents the normal functioning of neuro-chemistry or similar aspects, then the solution is in there, just like the "problem" is.

--A

Avatar wrote:

Cambo wrote: I'm sure sometimes you do. I've felt that way before. And it's a bullshit illusion, but it feels pretty real and irrevocable...

Sure, I've felt it myself...and that's again my point...it is an illusion. And knowing that is half the battle, however it may feel.

Unless somebody has a physical defect or abnormality that prevents the normal functioning of neuro-chemistry or similar aspects, then the solution is in there, just like the "problem" is.

--A

On that we are agreed.

The other half is actually believing it.

--A