Kevin's Watch

Why am I having difficulty following this thread these days? I think I have intellectually atrophied since being out of work. But I support all of you in your quest for inner calm.

I believe my depression, my mothers depression, my grandfathers depression is passed from generation to generation. I am not attributing it completely to genetics but I think it is a part of it. I stopped taking medication about 8 years ago. I felt like I was caught in cycle I couldn't get out of. For me medication made me helpless and dependent. 5 years ago I stopped going to therapy. I had been with the same therapist for more than 20 years. It became a question of does therapy 'cure' you or maintain you? Do I go to therapy to address and solve personal issues or do I go to therapy to have someone there to listen to me? I just decided at that point to stop. The first month or so was hard but it got easier. I have my moments but it has taught me to utilize inner resources to get past the bouts. I have also learned that depression/pain is part of life. I have stopped running from the pain, stopped trying to numb myself from sadness.

lorin wrote:Why am I having difficulty following this thread these days? I think I have intellectually atrophied since being out of work.

Yuck. If that's happening, I'm sorry.

Do I go to therapy to address and solve personal issues or do I go to therapy to have someone there to listen to me? I just decided at that point to stop. The first month or so was hard but it got easier. I have my moments but it has taught me to utilize inner resources to get past the bouts. I have also learned that depression/pain is part of life. I have stopped running from the pain, stopped trying to numb myself from sadness.

I can understand that kind of decision; in fact I made one much like it myself.
I had a counselor who is a wonderful woman in addition to being a effective listener.. noticing things I'm avoiding, "chasing" me down those alternative pathways, asking me the important questions I didn't think to ask...

But after awhile, my husband observed that he thought the dynamic had shifted... and that I was running there (to counseling) to run away from stuff.
I stopped going.
And I think I've been dealing with stuff.

So I think I get some of what you're saying lorin... what we're seeking matters so much, doesn't it?

Apologies, lorin, if the thread has become over-rationalised. Over-rationalisation and over-intellectualisation are part of my defence structures; who'd have guessed

The intention always is to support and encourage

u.

ussusimiel wrote:Apologies, lorin, if the thread has become over-rationalised. Over-rationalisation and over-intellectualisation are part of my defence structures; who'd have guessed

The intention always is to support and encourage

u.

NO NO NO I was talking about my perceptions. NOTHING wrong with what you said. I am just foggy these days. Please don't apologize for expressing yourself. I am overmedicated due to my recent/latest injury and that's what I'm talking about. I can usually keep up but can't these days. The good thing about this thread is it delves into mood disorders on all levels. So, again, shhhhhhh no apologies. ok?

Okay, lorin, I hear you. I just wanted to check

u.

lorin wrote: I believe my depression, my mothers depression, my grandfathers depression is passed from generation to generation.

Well, there is good reason to suspect that...has been for a while.
But there is more recent evidence, released just a little bit ago...
autism, ADHD, bipolar disorder, major depression and schizophrenia all have common links to 4 chromosomal sites, and particularly 2 specific genes that regulate calcium flows in cells.
So far there isn't causation, and can't predict/diagnose. But they do increase risk.
Obviously just a step forward.
But at least it is a step forward.

If therapy is something that works for someone, that is great....I would never take that away from anyone. However, I never, ever liked it. And group therapy, screw that right in the eye. Yucky!

As far as the generational thing.....my great grandmother had "fits" where she went to bed for a week at a time. My grandmother and father are both for real ocd....not just super neat. Depression ran down my mother's side, too. I think there is a link somewhere with genes, I just do not have the knowledge to discuss it intelligently.

Awhile back, I wrote:There was something I'd wanted to say to you ...going to go "rustle up" a post of yours from earlier in this thread now...

Pfft, good thing I didn't attach any deadline to this comment where I implied I was gonna say something soon!

lorin wrote:Her life was just one...don't know what to call it.....set of opposites.

When I'd read this (how long ago?), it really struck me.

I thought of myself.
I am in some ways rather all-or-nothing about my own importance...
How badly is what I have to give others needed?
How valuable are the talents I have and the work I will accomplish with them?
I obsess over these things.
(Given your mother's incredible talent... well, I'm making inferences she might have thought about some of these things alot.)

A year or two ago, I was on the phone with a friend who is... she's one of those people who's been tried & tested and who has stood up under it.

I told her how I alternate between thinking that my decisions and actions are the most important thing in the world... or that they don't matter at all.
Without missing a beat, she reflected, "And yet the truth lies... somewhere in between."

It usually does, but in this case, both statements are "true."

--A

Do you think that being 'somewhere in between,' or 'just being ordinary' would be an unbearable thing to deal with?

*shrug* What's "ordinary?" Seems to me there's no such thing.

And nothing wrong with being in between...in a sense we all are...somewhere in between clever and stupid, between right and wrong, between good and bad...it's the human condition. (Well, that and confusion.) Seems to me that our problems largely arise from forgetting that about each other.

--A

Yup. Complicated. As I said somewhere else, that makes life and people interesting... but not easy to deal with!

Life is complicated, with so many factors. Health, relationships with other complicated people, the economy, the time of year... I find it really helpful to give myself permission to just be down once in a while, and not put myself through the wringer about it.

I adhere to the Buddhist concept that the potential for all things exists in all people. Certain external elements, such as circumstances of birth, or mental illness, can have a kind of "weighting" effect that makes it easier or more difficult for potentials like happiness or fulfillment to arise from a person. But the potential always exists.

Cambo, happiness is not a goal of Buddhism, but rather to cease desiring happiness (or anything else). From a Christian standpoint, the right desires lead to happiness and fulfillment. In theory, anyway.

Paul wrote:Earnestly desire the best gifts... but the greatest of these is love.

In church this morning (where I get some of my best thinking done) I realized that I am not depressed in the normal sense; I'm not sad or hopeless. Rather, I feel numb, emotionally exhausted. I haven't felt truly energetic, excited, or enthused since I can remember. I am not unmoved by people and things (I broke down and wept when I read about the tornadoes) and I am capable of laughter, but I feel for now that I'm just here, taking up space.

I did just finish a school year and Fawn graduated which means a huge passage in our family, and it was exhausting. My husband is coming to a huge passage in his work life which means that when we return to Africa in January we have no idea what things will look like for him.

I sat there thinking that all the powerless situations in my life were just numbing at this point. For years, I've found the Serenity prayer to be highly useful in sorting things out:

God, grant me the serenity to accept things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference.

I realized I "accept" a lot of things I cannot change, so many that at this point I feel apathetic about stuff unless they are something I have power over. That's not really fair of me.

There are so many overwhelmingly powerless situations in my life. How do I keep caring?

Deer wrote:Cambo, happiness is not a goal of Buddhism, but rather to cease desiring happiness (or anything else). From a Christian standpoint, the right desires lead to happiness and fulfillment. In theory, anyway.

Not quite as simple as that, I think. Depends which text, which translation you're reading, and who is doing the translating . I have heard "happiness" defined as simply the absence of suffering. Yes desire is to be avoided, because desire is generally seen as a form of attachment, the root cause of suffering.

Deer wrote:In church this morning (where I get some of my best thinking done) I realized that I am not depressed in the normal sense; I'm not sad or hopeless. Rather, I feel numb, emotionally exhausted. I haven't felt truly energetic, excited, or enthused since I can remember. I am not unmoved by people and things (I broke down and wept when I read about the tornadoes) and I am capable of laughter, but I feel for now that I'm just here, taking up space.

I'd count this as a form of depression- I'm well familiar with that particular emptiness of purpose. For me it can often be a precursor to deeper depression- guard yourself.

Cambo wrote: I'd count this as a form of depression- I'm well familiar with that particular emptiness of purpose. For me it can often be a precursor to deeper depression- guard yourself.

Thanks, Cam. Half the battle is awareness. I believe my life has purpose and meaning. But right now I'm tired of purpose: I could use some joy.

Joy is in the ears that hear, not in the mouth that speaks.

I know that joy is a choice; to rejoice is a proactive as well as reactive verb. I'm trying to do that, but not feeling it.... right now. I have learned that:

This too shall pass,

and:

Weeping may endure for a night, but joy comes with the morning. (Psalm 126)

It does come back. A few years ago I went through the deepest depression of my life. One night I was laying in bed and I had the strangest feeling. I realized that I felt happy and excited and grateful and in bed I lifted my arms to heaven and cried for joy!!

But that didn't just happen; it was the result of a long series of choices to focus on the right things (you would say "mindfulness", I get it from the Bible where it says "Whatever is true, noble, right, pure, lovely and admirable, if there is anything excellent or praiseworthy; think on those things" and "Rejoice in the Lord always, again I will say, rejoice!" (Philippians) Sometimes you have to keep making that choice for a long time before it happens.

this is not the correct forum, I know that, But it feels safe here. So I am going to put it all out here and ask for opinions. I was watching Brain games on TBS where they test the watcher against mens strengths and women's
strengths. All the test that the men did well in, I did very well. Spacial tasks, mental mapping, etc, The test women did well in following instructions,arranging object to fit, matching faces I did miserable.

What does this mean? Could this be why my relationships never last? Deep down, am I a boy? Most of my friends are men, and I am attracted to them sexually but have little patience the roles expected of me as a woman.

whattaya think?

Nah, the general is never the specific. For every person that matches the average, there is one for whom it doesn't apply. Gender roles are almost entirely arbitrary even if they spring from original reasons.

Just because you don't fit into them comfortably per se doesn't make you more or less of a specific gender. If you have two X chromosomes, that's it. Genetically speaking.

--A

wow, almost a year since the last post. That's depressing in itself.

So I am going to post here though I am not expecting much feedback. I hear echoes bouncing off the empty walls. But it is a safe thread so I'll do it anyway, just to give it to the universe and not hang on to it.

Feeling quite scared these days. It's very hard to look back at your life's work and see a big empty closet. Right now I feel like all I am is an empty vessel. This can be good and this can be bad. Don't invest your whole life into one thing, this is what I learned. Because if you lose that one thing, you lose everything. Spread yourself around, invest in people not jobs.

Anyway I guess I tried. 10,000+ homeless people walked through the doors of the shelter i worked in. 10,000. No one ever came back to say hello, I never knew what happened to them. Being homeless is a very intimate thing. You provide shelter for that person / people. You provide safety and comfort. You 'parent' them and then they are gone. They have lives to live and they are gone.

Four children shared their lives with me. Three of them for more than 10 years.
You provide shelter for that child. You provide safety and comfort. You 'parent' them and then they are gone. They have lives to live and they are gone.

I managed more than 200 staff over the 20 years. They become your friends, they become your family. Then one day, they are all gone. They have lives to live and they are gone.

I never dealt with loss very well. I easily know why. I moved 14 times in 16 years of my childhood. Every time I would make a friend, I would lose them with the move. They were never small, across town moves. They were 'let's move to Switzerland or Paris or Berlin or Denver' kind of moves. So my friends were always gone, there was always loss. I learned one thing from that. Never make friends because you WILL lose them.

Life is funny. Here I am at 59 and in the same situation, repeating the same patterns of my childhood. I have not discussed this with anyone, but in the last year I have 'gone under'. I am completely isolated. Except for my visits here I speak to no one, rarely leave the house and avoid contact. It's the childhood pattern I am repeating. All this loss is hard for me so I shut down.

I know I have to fill my closet again but it's harder now. It's hard to believe I am worth the effort. That I can be of interest to anyone. I feel like my value as a human being is diminished. I feel worthless. I feel useless. The price we pay for seeking external validation.

Wow. Powerful writing. I have had some issues with anxiety in the past so I know what it feels like to feel like to be at the mercy of your thoughts and emotions. I would like to give you the standard and easy advice and say to you "get out there and met people, make friends, find a social hobby that you can tolerate and start mixing with people again" but I know it's not that easy. I wish it were.

The only advice I can give is to get help. It took me a long time to admit to myself that I needed outside help but I now have a great Psychiatrist who I see once a year for a med check and I feel great. I've been better for 10 years at least. Meds aren't for everyone but I've found them to be incredibly helpful.

The other thing I want to say is that I often found that even when I wasn't feeling well I would continue to act like I was even if only for my own benefit. For me, my mind is like a somewhat reluctant friend, if I go somewhere or do something it will tag along reluctantly. As my body goes through the motions of doing things my mind eventually comes around and joins in the fun. It doesn't always work quickly but as long as I continue to will my body to play the part the mind eventually capitulates and follows along.

Hope you feel better soon!

Erin aka Brinn