Kevin's Watch

Zarathustra wrote:Ha, I just popped into this forum for the first time in months and saw this by chance. I've read Neverness and thought it was overall ok, and brilliant in many spots. If he gets better, maybe I should press on. I'm not sure it's possible to be "too philosophical," as Av says, but I'm curious to see where others draw this line.

I've never read Pratchett. I know I should. So help me out, where should I start?

I draw the line when it starts to feel like I'm wading through exposition instead of advancing the story much.

I do think the follow-up trilogy (Requiem for Homo Sapiens) was better than Neverness was.

As for Pratchett...

Obviously, start with the Discworld books. If you don't like those, you probably won't like the rest of his books, and they do make up the vast majority of them.

Personally I do think that reading them in the publication order is the best thing. However, these days I find the first few a bit flat, if only because of the fantastic way the characters develop in later books, making them seem a bit undeveloped now that I go back. (Because they were.) But the first few are the grounding that lets that development build up.

Another possibility is to pick a story-line and follow it. There are a few main ones, namely the Wizards, the Witches, Death, the Watch, Moist von Lipwig and Tiffany Aching, that run as contiguous stories, interspersed by stand-alone books in the same world, (like Pyramids, Small Gods, The Truth, and Monstrous Regiment).

The first 5 books are basically the start of each of the original main story-lines. (Moist and Tiffany come later.)

Book 1 and 2, (The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic) begin the Wizard story-line, book 3, (Equal Rites) begins the Witches, Book 4 (Mort) begins the Death story-line and 5, (Guards, Guards), begins the Watch.

After that, the publication order alternates irregularly between them, with those stand-alone ones popping in every now and then.

Also, they start off as something of a parody of fantasy tropes, but they develop into comedic social satire.

Great books. Hope you enjoy them. (There is a Pratchett thread inhere somewhere.)

--A

I don't rate any of the books higher than Neverness. But, since it's a trilogy that follows, yeah there's a lot more fun stuff overall.

Avatar wrote:The Fifth Elephant - Pratchett...you can't read just one. Or two or three etc.

Small Gods is a fav of mine.

Fist and Faith wrote:I don't rate any of the books higher than Neverness. But, since it's a trilogy that follows, yeah there's a lot more fun stuff overall.

On my list but I still haven't got around to them! I'm in a fiction mood tho, so maybe they'll get bumped...

Fist and Faith wrote:Decisions, decisions! Well, depends on what you're after at the moment. You originally posted that you are looking for a massive read. That's Malazan. And, more than massive, it is of the highest quality throughout! None of this, "The first three books are great, but then it gets boring/repetitive/whatever." The nearly 10K page of the 10 books of The Malazan Book of the Fallen are one, gigantic... I don't even know what to call it. Orgasm? I read it all in a headlong rush. If I was able to stay awake that long, or could read as fast as Av, I would have read it all in one sitting.

And the several books by the co-creator are at least good, and some are great.

That's encouraging. It does require something of the reader, a quality of attention to keep it all straight. That's the kind of story that ends up really satisfying. Respects the reader's intelligence. Or maybe the writer just likes complicated.

I also like that it's complete (?). I still feel burned by Song of Ice and Fire.

balon!

Fist and Faith wrote:Decisions, decisions! Well, depends on what you're after at the moment. You originally posted that you are looking for a massive read. That's Malazan. And, more than massive, it is of the highest quality throughout! None of this, "The first three books are great, but then it gets boring/repetitive/whatever." The nearly 10K page of the 10 books of The Malazan Book of the Fallen are one, gigantic... I don't even know what to call it. Orgasm? I read it all in a headlong rush. If I was able to stay awake that long, or could read as fast as Av, I would have read it all in one sitting.

And the several books by the co-creator are at least good, and some are great.

I thought the 1st book was just awful, and haven't been able to bring myself to read any more. Now it's been so long, I've forgotten literally everything that happened, so I'd have to reread it in order to continue. Seriously, I can't remember a single character or plotline from that book. It's just a blurr of bad writing, in my mind. I'm surprised people like it so much. It seemed like a D&D wet dream and nothing more.

I enjoyed Gardens of the Moon more than most. But yes, a decent description. However, when I finished the second book, Deadhouse Gates, I thought there couldn't be a better book in the world. Then I read the third, Memories of Ice, and was stunned to find that I was wrong.

Of course, to each their own. Every book of the ten (other than GotM) is the favorite of someone or other. Others never get through the first, and manage to live full lives without Malazan.

I think some have had great success starting with the second. It really is better written. Still, I think the first is great.

I've said before, but maybe worth repeating. I'm a very slow reader. Even without my sleep apnea, which prevents reading entirely at times, I'm just slow. So I read the first four Malazan books. Before starting the 5th, I thought there was just so much in those four - they're very big, and packed with characters, races, and events - that I should read them again. Absorb more before going on. I can't stress enough how unusual that is for me. I've read only a few other books more than once, and nothing remotely this size. But this had a grip on me I've never experienced, before or since.

So I read 1-4 again, enraptured again, same feelings about the 2nd then the 3rd again. Which is not to say the 4th is less than amazing. Then I read 6-10. In what is, for me, breakneck speed.

Then I read 1-4 again. For the third time. I've never read any other book three times. And I sped through them again, like it was the first time, unable to put them down.

Yeah, I hated GotM the first time I read it. Ok, maybe not hated, but I just couldn't figure out what the hell was going on. (That's why I recommend starting with Night of Knives, because it's almost an intro to GoTM.)

On subsequent reads, I've been fine with it, because Iknow what's going on.

But Dead House Gates! Coltain! The Chain of Dogs!

Damn.

(I might have to read them again. )

--A

The Chain of Dogs



I just got shivers.

Fist and Faith wrote:balon!

All the Pantheon nerds have tried to get me to read the Gardens books, but I still haven't managed to read them! haha

Zarathustra wrote:It seemed like a D&D wet dream and nothing more.

hahah yeah I had the same impression.

Just stared Mad Amos Malone by Alan Dean Foster. Dragon hunting westerns is a genre I've never heard of, and I need to know more!

Zarathustra wrote:Ha, I just popped into this forum for the first time in months and saw this by chance. I've read Neverness and thought it was overall ok, and brilliant in many spots. If he gets better, maybe I should press on. I'm not sure it's possible to be "too philosophical," as Av says, but I'm curious to see where others draw this line.

Just catching up here

I enjoyed The Broken God more than Neverness. I'd be interested in your thoughts if you do get around to reading it - there's a lot of philosophical stuff, but I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to different philosophers etc. Overall I preferred the story to Neverness.

I don't know if I like it more, but I liked Broken God as well. I think it went off the rails after that book though. Which is too bad, because I think Neverness stands alone, while the remainder of the story is more like a trilogy, you need to get to the end of them all to have a complete story. So GB by itself is nice but unsatisfactory.

Interesting. As always, everything's subjective. I love the rest of the trilogy.

So far in Mad Amos Malone Unicorns, Kitchen Witches, Spicy Food competitions, ancient ghost battles...and the whole while tearing it up with a Sharps rifle and a big ol'beard. Loving this dude, wish it would be made into a Netflix series!

Night Watch by Pratchett.

--A

Thud. This will probably bring my Pratchett binge to an end, picked up a few 2nd hand books that will give me something new to read.

--A

Avatar wrote:Thud. This will probably bring my Pratchett binge to an end, picked up a few 2nd hand books that will give me something new to read.

--A

For a second I thought Thud was the name of the book you're reading next haha

Just picked up Frogkisser by Garth Nix! I'm a big fan of Sabriel & Co so this is exciting!

. Until you said that, I thought Thud would be the last Pratchett book he would be reading for the time being.

balon! wrote:

Avatar wrote:Thud. This will probably bring my Pratchett binge to an end, picked up a few 2nd hand books that will give me something new to read.

--A

For a second I thought Thud was the name of the book you're reading next haha

Just picked up Frogkisser by Garth Nix! I'm a big fan of Sabriel & Co so this is exciting!

Ooooh I loved Sabriel et al .. and love Garth Nix. I dont run into many Nix fans.

I havent read Frogkisser youll have to leave a review

Avatar wrote:Thud. This will probably bring my Pratchett binge to an end, picked up a few 2nd hand books that will give me something new to read.

--A

I also thought Thud was the title of the last Terry Pratchett book Av would be reading. Lol! (great title!)