Kevin's Watch

For all those who say that Ender's Shadow does not posses the same amount of depth as the original novel, I would have to strongly disagree. In fact, I found Bean's story to be far more insightful and emotional than Ender's. The characters (developments) were also by far greater than what I had seen in Game. I also did not like how Ender became the center of absolutely everything in the first novel. I prefer to read about protagonists that play significant roles but at the same time, don't recieve all the attention.

Speaker for the Dead had a great start, but the ending proved to be a giant disappointment. First off, I was against the entire idea of continuing the story of Ender. I really thought it should have been left up to the reader's imagination. Ender's Game should have been a stand alone without any sequals. Speaker for the Dead is a whole new mother. Ender's character was changed beyond any recognition. Beyond any at all. And while it has been 3000 years and last we saw him, he was an adolescent boy, I felt I was looking at an absolutely different person. The entire relationship with his sister had also vanished and it was hard to imagine that he and Valentine were even siblings. In my opinion, much of the characters were ruined. Novinha, who was wonderfuly developed at the beggining of the novel was unbelieavebly weak for about 2/3 of the book (not as a person, but as a character). Her complex personality, as seen at the start, dimmed down to a flat character with a considerbly limited amount of emotions (either scorn or histeria). Some plots were also ended abruptly in the most uncomfortable manner.

Spoiler

The entire affair with Miro and his sister fell down dead like a rock. There was no resolution, no diologue, no nothing. It's almost as bad as Greek trajedies, where plot found the resolution to the characters' shameful deeds through suicide. In addition, found that Miro's cripplement played no significant role in the story.

Ironically, I feel the same way, which is why I have avoided Shadow like the plague.

Blue Spawn's spoiler box wrote:There was no resolution, no diologue, no nothing.

In answer to Blue Spawn's spoiler box, the people who awarded SPEAKER FOR THE DEAD both the Hugo and the Nebula awards didn't say anything about major flaws in the plot.

Blue Spawn wrote:Speaker for the Dead is a whole new mother. Ender's character was changed beyond any recognition. Beyond any at all. And while it has been 3000 years and last we saw him, he was an adolescent boy, I felt I was looking at an absolutely different person.

That's what happens when people grow up.

I am very impressed at Card's ability to switch from the writing style of GAME to the very different one of SPEAKER, and from the thought mode of GAME to the very different thought mode of SPEAKER. A virtuoso achievement, one of them narrowly focused and one taking in a universe of issues and awareness, both of extremely high quality.

Dan, no need to avoid ENDER'S SHADOW, it's easy to feel Bean as a person. It's been four years since I read it, but I still remember that.

Are you trying to say that just because they're Hugo and Nebula, that they MUST be right? What's to say that their opinion of flawed plotline is more supreme than mine or yours? I found irresolved storylines with definite reasons, paying careful attention to the development of the plot. I did not simply conjure up these "flaws" out of thin air.

Hmm. Speaker was the 3rd book, right? That is where the wheels started coming off for me....or was Xenocide 3? Whatever they were titled, books 1 & 2 were great by me. Book 3 not so great as it started drifting from it's original course; I think Card really didn't want to pursue what he had done with Miro's characters health and love life issues. Book 4 just seemed like Card was ready to finish it, even though he couldn't wrap up all the loose ends. Again, even though I now know there is some history with the philotes thing, when Card used it as a solution to all of his character's life problems, I felt cheated as a reader.

XENOCIDE is the third one, dAN. But I don't want to make my comments on the 3rd & 4th ones until Edge finishes reading them.

Heh, if he listens to me, you'll never get to comment on them.

... now on 'Shadow Of The Hegemon'.

Having just finished re-reading this whole series myself, I must say that I don't really think that the following books were worse than Ender's Game.

I loved the moral and social issues that he discusses, and I think that very interesting points are raised.

Admittedly, the tone and themes did vary, but as was said somewhere in this thread, both the reasoning and intent behind them were very different, and I think that, while some themes could have been better explored, (read: more detail), the progression was acceptable and understandable.

All else aside, I think they make an excellent story, and one that I've much enjoyed immensely.

--Avatar

I really enjoyed Ender's Shadow, it was fun to see how he portrayed the same scenes from a different perspective.

The first couple of chapters from Shadow of the Giant are on Card's website.

www.hatrack.com

Woo hoo! Does he have a contracted publication date yet?

I've read all the Ender's books. Also the Prentice Alvin's. What's the name of those about ... arg... The people on a desert planet that blocked out all technology because they destroyed Earth. They had these crystals. Well, anyway, I read those too. Also this other one about a boy that disappears and was murdered by a serial killer. I enjoy his stories, but I do see what SRD says about censorship. I find it amusing as a kinda sorta Catholic that was married to a former Morman. lol Card had one Catholic parent and one Mormon parent so his religious undertones amuse me.

I've read all of the Ender/Speaker/Shadow series up to this point, but have not yet picked up Shadow of the Giant. It is on my short list, though...

One thing those complaining about how different Ender and Speaker are need to do is understand the history. Ender's Game was written as a short story, and when OSC was writing Speaker he ran into some writer's block issues,

Spoiler

and his solution was to make Ender the Speaker

. But that would have required an annoying amount of prologue in Speaker, so he instead fleshed out Ender's Game and put some transitionary material for Speaker onto the end of it.

You might also find one his short story "The Investment Counselor" interesting, as it is a nice "transition" story that fits between Ender and Speaker. Or get is book "First Meetings" which includes that, plus several other Ender-related shorts.

Finally, for those who are as obsessed with OSC as you are with SRD, his own site is www.hatrack.com/.

www4.ncsu.edu/~tenshi/Killer_000.htm

An article that discusses and gives some criticism to Ender's Game. The essay was written in 2004 AFAIK.

Interesting article TarasWizard...just skimmed for now, but definitely worth a read for anybody who enjoyed these books.

--A

Some interesting additions to the Shadow series coming down the pike,

Shadows in Flight is a yet-to-be-published science fiction novel, which will link the Bean quartet back to the Ender novels.

Ender in Exile: Ganges (working title) is an additional book to the Ender's Game series of books that will work on tying the Ender Quartet and Bean Quartet together

There's also something out that's called "First Meetings"; it is a series of 4 short stories (I think the original Ender's short is one) that add to the background of Ender. I really enjoyed it.

Thanks for the info...will keep a look-out for them.

--A

Ok, shameless plug, but I would be remiss in not telling you all....

OSC's "Red Prophet" and "Wyrms" is being made into a comic. Fantastic artowork. You can preview it on the forums if you click on the banner in my sig.

Like I said, shameless..... but check it out, the stuff is nice!

You should post this in the comics forum as well. How can they make a comic out of Red Prophet without doing Seventh Son though?

--A