Kevin's Watch

I personally use a Braun razor. Just the basic model, not the fancy, self-cleaning version. I've never seen the Occam brand in stores. Must be one of those Europe-only items.

(ducks imprecations hurled by Latin-speaking people)


Wonderful illustration, jwaneeta! Yeah, I'll admit, winter in Andelain would be cool. And cold. (Heh)

As near as I can determine, breaking the Law of Death made it possible for people to come back as spectres. The breaking of the Law of Life makes it possible for them to interact with the physical plane. But there's a fuzziness to that last bit that forms a whole 'nuther category of Nagging Questions: what are the limits of such interactions? Does it include corporeality? Does it require Earthpower to make it go? If there is physicality, however limited, does that mean the Dead get tired?

Aargh, all this fuzziness leaves me more confused than a crazed Cavewight. "Stupid Laws! Puny Laws! Drool crush them! Make own Laws!" *drool, cough, hack, spit*

Okay, let's see: the breaking of the Law of Death lets Kevin come back as a spectre who can walk through walls and stuff. So what does the breaking of the Law of Life do to that scenario? Does it mean Kevin can still come back, but now he's a solid physical body who can't pass through walls anymore?

But in TPTP, when Satansfist resurrected the dead, they were real physical things dredged from the ground, not just spectres. All that with just a broken Law of Death. I'm probably missing something obvious here. (Wouldn't be the first time.)

Matrixman,yep,you missed something. When the power was recalled in TPTP by Satansfist they returned to the dirt from which they came.......

Matrixman wrote:I personally use a Braun razor. Just the basic model, not the fancy, self-cleaning version. I've never seen the Occam brand in stores. Must be one of those Europe-only items.

(ducks imprecations hurled by Latin-speaking people)

I'd imagine that shaving with an Occam's brand razor might deprive you of things that you might like to keep on your face, but are ultimately not essential, i.e. your nose, your lips, ect. It's probably just as well that you use the Braun razor. *nods*

By the way. . . I said something to/about you in the thread about "when you knew you were hooked." You might want to go see what the new girl said. *looks innocent*

The Law of Life was clarified in Runes significantly. It would be a spoiler to quote it here, I am afraid. But suffice it to say that the Law of Life looks to be a little bit more generalized than it appears. One might say that, from the Second Chronicles, the Law of Life prevents the dead becoming living, but one wonders what the distinction is when the dead can walk around anyway. I think it would be fairer to say that the Law of Life is about when life ends (where "ends" is both ends.) Other than that, it is supposed to be a bit of a conundrum, because the Final Chronicles is about revealing it.

Anyway, I believe that the proper way to view Sunder and Hollian's return is that, by breaking the Law of Life, Sunder didn't have to die because he was stabbed in the back, and Hollian didn't have to die because she was fried by too much power.

Matrixman wrote:
Wonderful illustration, jwaneeta! Yeah, I'll admit, winter in Andelain would be cool. And cold. (Heh)

Yeah, as you can probably tell that's one of several watercolors I did of Andelain, showing quite undeniable images from winter and fall. But I have twisted their reality to reflect my new status as an Eternal Spring convert. There's no zeal like convert zeal.

Wayfriend wrote:The Law of Life was clarified in Runes significantly. It would be a spoiler to quote it here, I am afraid.

I know... it makes it hard to discuss all the implications. I was going to say something else but I really couldn't without spoiling for Runes.

Wayfriend wrote:I think it would be fairer to say that the Law of Life is about when life ends (where "ends" is both ends.) Other than that, it is supposed to be a bit of a conundrum, because the Final Chronicles is about revealing it.

Okay, that actually helps a lot. Thanks.

Wayfriend wrote:Anyway, I believe that the proper way to view Sunder and Hollian's return is that, by breaking the Law of Life, Sunder didn't have to die because he was stabbed in the back, and Hollian didn't have to die because she was fried by too much power.

Wait, when was Sunder stabbed in the back? I thought he stabbed CC in the back? I was never clear on just what Sunder was dying of when he staggered into Andelain -- grief? It just says

His soul seemed to collapse inward. After days of endurance, he was dying.

I've always figured that whatever the proximate cause (grief or congestive heart failure or the big explosion of Forestal fire) Sunder died in his last act -- stabbing CC. And that was why he (in addition to Hollian and the unborn baby) had to be resurrected.

(Ugh! I keep censoring this paragraph -- nuts, forget it. I can't ask what I want to ask in this forum, or even allude to it. )

Anyway, I remembered another 1st /2nd Chrons question that's been bugging me for years... maybe I can get to that later...

jwaneeta wrote:

Wayfriend wrote:Anyway, I believe that the proper way to view Sunder and Hollian's return is that, by breaking the Law of Life, Sunder didn't have to die because he was stabbed in the back, and Hollian didn't have to die because she was fried by too much power.

Wait, when was Sunder stabbed in the back?

You're right, I got my back stabbing mixed up. Whatever Sunder died from, then. Forestal explosion. (Don't do Chronicles from work, I suppose should be my lesson.)

I mispoke on the detail, but I assert my major point. I believe that the breaking of the Law of Life meant that Sunder and Hollian's life was not caused to end, when had the Law been in force it their lives would have had to end due to their injuries.

jwaneeta wrote:Did Caerroil Wildwood start life in diapers, eating strained carrots like the rest of us plebes? What on earth is Atiaran driving at?

This is Atiaran giving Covenant the dope about Unfettered Ones in LFB, p. 171:

Some delve into the earth to uncover the secrets of the Cavewights, others learn the lore of the Demondim - whatever knowledge guides the One's private prophecy. I have even heard it whispered that some Unfettered follow the legend of Caerroil Wildwood of Garroting Deep, and become Forestals. But that is a perilous thought, even when whispered.

As it happens, I happend to be travelling in New Mexico on business this week. I was in this small town named Albakoykee, or something like that, and after a day of meetings I decided to take a walk and enjoy some of that beautiful New Mexico air.

As I was walking, I spotted an old man holding a staff and wearing an ochre ghi, coming out of a strip mall martial arts school. (It turned out the "staff" was some sort of karate stick, which I found out soon enough.) Well, by the wave of his hair, his acedemics beard, and the furtive "stay away from me" look he gave me, I thought I recognized him. "Hey, aren't you ..." I started to say, when he took off like an author at the end of a booksigning. I ran after him.

To make a long story short, ten minutes later I had him pinned to the ground under a saguaro, karate stick marks all over my face and body. But I got him to part with

The Secret Knowledge of the Origins of the Forestals

In the beginning, there was One Forest, which ruled the Land.

Then came humans, with axes and careless butchery. The Forests responded by creating the forestals, to defend the remaining Forest and to prevent the depradations of man. (Did an Elohim provide this knowledge? It matters not to us.)

The forestals had human form. This has led many to speculate that they are friendly, or that they desire interaction with humans. This could not be farther than the truth. The human form is the image of death to the Forest, and in its defense, it used the human form as the means to meet death on its level. When a forestal emerges from the shadow of the wood, flee for your life, for it is the strong, wild arm of the Forest, and it brooks no intrusion.

Despite such speculation, know that forestals are not born, nor are they humans who have found a calling serving the trees. They were created by the will of the Forest, in the beginning, and from time to time since then. Perhaps a poor traveller lost in the wild has been used as raw material, but such speculation is idle. The forestals are beings of will, created by will, and executing that will. They are because the Forest has demanded that they be. No other reason is needed.

And yet, from time to time, the people of the Land, inspired by the Lords and the love of the Earth which Earthpower fosters, have served the forests. Some have been permitted to enter and work. Many others have entered and disappeared; no word or mark of them has been found. It is for this reason that the Loresraat speaks not of this path, and does not encourage any to follow it. Yet it is permitted, once the choice of the Unfettered one is revealed as his or her unrelenting calling.

If any have become forestals, there is no evidence. The thought is discouraged: the Forest is dangerous, and deserves respect as a being which can take care of itself without any human help. The Lords dissuade any who think to apply for the job.

Clearly, the origins of Caer Caveral as Hile Troy are known. However, he was chosen to meet a need which the Forests, in their deep wisdom, have seen. The Forest willed Caer Caveral to be; Hile Troy was used as fodder to fulfill this will. It would be a mistake to assume that the will of the Forest had no other recourse; that forestals come about in no other way. The will is enough.

Do you remember what the Forest was said to have done to the Elohim who taught it? The Forest took her, and bound her; she became available material for fulfilling the will of the Forest. The Forest takes what it needs; the will is paramount. This tells you everything you need to know about forestals.

Wheee! Now that's what I call an authoritative reply. It has kinda... I dunno, a ring of truth to it, somehow.

That "human form is the image of death" bit positively rocks. *shiver*

Amen!

Not only is he reaching for a "cross," he's walking on water to do so. And if memory serves, in the background there's a tiny figure kneeling in awe. I mean, golly. Subtle it ain't

I remember, when I first came across the set of chronocles, I was hesitant to read it because the title had some pretty religious connections. Think about it:
Thomas =doubting thomas, common catholic name
Covenant = pact with God, common Bible word
and then, of course, there's unbeliever. Glad I decided to read the series, though...

Nagging question; if three books in a set is a trilogy, what is four books called? I seriously want to know........ (please don't say "four books":).......)Rocksister

if three books in a set is a trilogy, what is four books called?

Answer: A trilogy plus some crap called "The Runes of the Earth"

-jay

(Serious answer: I think it's called a quadrilogy, maybe.)

Fist and Faith!!! Comedians in The Land!!! I detect a "gobbet" of Covenant-ish sarcasm there... (Sorry, reading fifth book again and ran across this word just last night. It struck me as hilarious for some reason.......)

*looks up from reading*
Hmm? Somebody called me?

Rocksister wrote:Nagging question; if three books in a set is a trilogy, what is four books called? I seriously want to know........ (please don't say "four books":).......)Rocksister

My editor friend here in London says it's called a quartet, and cites Ursula K. Leguin's Earthseas... uh, quartet. (Remember Tehanu?)

*waves from vacation*

Wikipedia wrote:A tetralogy is a compound work that is made up of four (numerical prefix tetra-) distinct works. [link]

"Quadrilogy"?!?! yeesh.

[edit]BTW, Donaldson calls them books 6 thru 10. That makes it a decology. Which puts the Chronicles in the same awesome class as L Ron Hubbard's Mission Earth series.

...or Eddings' Belgariad & Mallorean


[/i]

One nagging minor question that occurs to me is:

Why was the Sunbane speeding up a bad thing? Was it just because the Clave said so? IIRC there were characters who looked back upon the times when a particular Sun could last for a week as The Good 'Ole Days.

To my mind a week-long Sun of Pestilence, especially if it followed a Sun of Fertility, would be far worse than having a one-day cycle.

They were fooling everyone into thinking the power of the sunbane was onit's way down because it wasn't lasting as long. In truth, the Sun Bane was gaining power and cycling faster

And the fast cycles were a more intense strain on the Land and the Earthpower. The idea was that once it reached one day changes the power would become so great it would spread to cover the world.