300

[Warmark]

Wont be there forever, as the site will eventually take it down, but you can watch it here in reasonable quality.

www.veoh.com/videos/v329948eJ5kxzQ7

[Marv]

Wont be there forever, as the site will eventually take it down, but you can watch it here in reasonable quality.

www.veoh.com/videos/v329948eJ5kxzQ7

Haha! What were you told about pirating Warmark!!? You naughty boy!

But thanks pal. I'm watching it right now.

[caamora]

Everything you just said here spoke to my heart.

I should see this movie a few more times before it's out of theatres.

I second that, Waddley!

Wont be there forever, as the site will eventually take it down, but you can watch it here in reasonable quality.

www.veoh.com/videos/v329948eJ5kxzQ7

What is this? I am at work and I cannot download it. If it is the movie, it will probably be taken down by the time I get home.

[Warmark]

No you dont download it, its simply streamed via that website. Its similar to youtube.

Edit: no problem marvin, i might even start a new thread for requests if anyone wants me to try find them a film to watch.

[stonemaybe]

going to see 300 tonight

[Reave the Unjust]

Cheers Warmark!
I'm off to see it on a big screen again soon (my monitor is rubbish!).
Just goes to show that if a film is good enough, people will want to see it in a cinema, even if they have already watched it via an "alternative source".
I seem top be very popular with my friends after this...
Even the ones who said "it's just a war movie" want to see it in IMAX now!

The only mate of mine who refuses to watch it maintains that it has a racist slant, and will not even consider anything else....
I'll talk to him more about it, and maybe ask you guys what you think of his reasons. I value your opinions

[Kil Tyme]

He's got something against Greeks defending themselves against Persians? Tell him he is a racist for Not watching it.

[Reave the Unjust]

That's a good idea!

[CovenantJr]

Yeah, I've heard the 'racism' argument a few times now. Apparently 300 demonises Asians and Iranians. The fact that, broadly, this stuff actually happened appears to be irrelevant to these people.

[Reave the Unjust]

Finally got him to watch it (at spear point!), hoping he would see it for what it is, rather than what he thinks it is.....

After much discussion:
What my friend was getting at was that everyone in the film who is "good" is "white" (ie. northern european), and bad guys are "non-white" (asian, african, middle-eastern etc). He argues that the Greeks of old would not have looked too dissimilar to people of the middle east, and that the film is playing on current fears and animosities regarding West vs East.

He then went on to take it even further by saying that the "master race thing" is often linked to Spartans:

From www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A2562905

The Spartans did however have a darker side to their ideologies. Slavery was common place, coming from conquered people. They were also the founding fathers of eugenics - a system where the strongest survive to give their traits to new Spartans. It was because of this particular aspect the Adolf Hitler, leader of the Nazi party, admired the Spartans.
In February 1945, he told Martin Bormann (Head of the Nazi Party Chancellery and his private secretary):

"And if, in spite of everything, the Fates have decreed that we should once more in the course of our history be crushed by forces superior to our own, then let us go down with our heads high and secure in the knowledge that the honour of the German people remains without blemish. A desperate fight remains for all time a shining example. Let us remember Leonidas and his 300 Spartans! In any case, we are not of the stuff that goes tamely to the slaughter like sheep. They may well exterminate us. But they will never lead us to the slaughter house!"

He pointed out that most of the bad guys were deformed or abnormal in some way, another sign of elitism on the film-makers part.

One point I am swayed on is that the film portrays that the fall of Greece (and freedom?) would be a tragedy for the ENTIRE WORLD. As if the rest of the world doesn't matter and all of our "advances" have come via the Greek civilisation.

What do you guys think to his "Blasphemy" & "Madness"?

[edited to correct spelling of H2G2 quote]

[stonemaybe]

I'd like to recount a whispered conversation me and Sook had about an hour into 300 at the cinema (note Sook is Korean and knows nothing about ancient greece).

Sook: They're all gay, aren't they?

Me: *laughs out loud* *nods*

[Usivius]

LOL..

[Reave the Unjust]

I'd like to recount a whispered conversation me and Sook had about an hour into 300 at the cinema (note Sook is Korean and knows nothing about ancient greece).

Sook: They're all gay, aren't they?

Me: *laughs out loud* *nods*

Ha! That's ace!
I forsee Spartan outfits replacing Village People costumes in the gay community very soon. Coming to a Mardi Gras or Carnival near you this summer! (sorry for the stereotyping!)

So Stonemaybe, what did you think of the film?

I've noticed no-one has responded to my friend's views on the film. (I think he'd already made up his mind.) This is my response:

{Re the claim that all the non-white people were evil in the movie}
I seem to recall at least a few non Persians being baddies!
I think that as the film was made by with US money, it was unlikely to have been made if the main heroes were not white, which is pretty sad I know. More of an industry problem really. I asked him how he knows what the Spartans or Persians looked like: he doesn't. Not sure how else to respond, he won't listen anyway!
At least I got him to watch it (thanks to Warmark!).

{Re post-911 $h!t stirring}
The East vs West fears are as old as Europe itself. There was only one direction a large empire can come from to threaten europe (the west): from the east of course! Huns, Mongols, Persians, Russians are all from the "east". Look at all the similar claims made against Tolkien: the Bad Guys always seem to be from the east and darker and dressed funny. Don't think he was a Racist Nazi Scumbag though!

{Re the "master race thing"}
It's a fact that the Spartans used what could be called eugenics, but selective breeding has been used in many cultures (for better or worse) for centuries. Linking it to Hitler is an easy way to make it "evil" in itself. It tends to provoke an emotional reponse for it's own sake.

{Re the enemies are abnormal}
Isn't it normal in storytelling to make the enemies look even more scary?

{Re the fall of Greece not being the terrible tragedy it was portrayed as}
Certainly, it would be a different world now if those events had not come to pass, but many other positive and negative things may have happened. Eg. many of our "modern" ways come from Arabic and Indian discoveries.
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but there is an interesting book called "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley-Robinson. It's an alternative (theoretical!) history of the the last 1000 years, imagining what would have happened if Europe had ceased to be an influence. While not perfect, you can tell the author has done a bit of research into science, medicine and technology from central Asia etc. A lot of this stuff was around a long time ago, but for various reasons was kept secret, or we only learn about it as a "western" invention.
The Roman Empire is said to decend from the Greek ways, and there are many similarities between it and the Persian Empire (everyone is welcome, as long as you submit to the will of the state, or the boss). One is as bad/good as the other IMHO!
There are accounts of Christians burning ancient Greek libraries only a few hundred years ago. It's not like we are now backward due to that loss; and they obviously didn't enlighten the ENTIRE world's civilisation, otherwise people wouldn't have ignorantly destroyed it in the first place! LOL

I'm rambling again. The filmakers should hire me to defend them I think. Shame I don't get paid for my jabbering!

[Reave the Unjust]

I guess someone had to do it!

[Lorelei]

I'd like to recount a whispered conversation me and Sook had about an hour into 300 at the cinema (note Sook is Korean and knows nothing about ancient greece).

Sook: They're all gay, aren't they?

Me: *laughs out loud* *nods*

Ha! That's ace!
I forsee Spartan outfits replacing Village People costumes in the gay community very soon. Coming to a Mardi Gras or Carnival near you this summer! (sorry for the stereotyping!)

So Stonemaybe, what did you think of the film?

I've noticed no-one has responded to my friend's views on the film. (I think he'd already made up his mind.) This is my response:

{Re the claim that all the non-white people were evil in the movie}
I seem to recall at least a few non Persians being baddies!
I think that as the film was made by with US money, it was unlikely to have been made if the main heroes were not white, which is pretty sad I know. More of an industry problem really. I asked him how he knows what the Spartans or Persians looked like: he doesn't. Not sure how else to respond, he won't listen anyway!
At least I got him to watch it (thanks to Warmark!).

{Re post-911 $h!t stirring}
The East vs West fears are as old as Europe itself. There was only one direction a large empire can come from to threaten europe (the west): from the east of course! Huns, Mongols, Persians, Russians are all from the "east". Look at all the similar claims made against Tolkien: the Bad Guys always seem to be from the east and darker and dressed funny. Don't think he was a Racist Nazi Scumbag though!

{Re the "master race thing"}
It's a fact that the Spartans used what could be called eugenics, but selective breeding has been used in many cultures (for better or worse) for centuries. Linking it to Hitler is an easy way to make it "evil" in itself. It tends to provoke an emotional reponse for it's own sake.

{Re the enemies are abnormal}
Isn't it normal in storytelling to make the enemies look even more scary?

{Re the fall of Greece not being the terrible tragedy it was portrayed as}
Certainly, it would be a different world now if those events had not come to pass, but many other positive and negative things may have happened. Eg. many of our "modern" ways come from Arabic and Indian discoveries.
I've mentioned it elsewhere, but there is an interesting book called "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley-Robinson. It's an alternative (theoretical!) history of the the last 1000 years, imagining what would have happened if Europe had ceased to be an influence. While not perfect, you can tell the author has done a bit of research into science, medicine and technology from central Asia etc. A lot of this stuff was around a long time ago, but for various reasons was kept secret, or we only learn about it as a "western" invention.
The Roman Empire is said to decend from the Greek ways, and there are many similarities between it and the Persian Empire (everyone is welcome, as long as you submit to the will of the state, or the boss). One is as bad/good as the other IMHO!
There are accounts of Christians burning ancient Greek libraries only a few hundred years ago. It's not like we are now backward due to that loss; and they obviously didn't enlighten the ENTIRE world's civilisation, otherwise people wouldn't have ignorantly destroyed it in the first place! LOL

I'm rambling again. The filmakers should hire me to defend them I think. Shame I don't get paid for my jabbering!

The thing is that your friend has already made up his mind and will not be persuaded to listen to other points of view....tis a shame because debate is a wonderful thing.

Does he know that the movie is based on a comic book and uses fantastical imagery? Did he ever hear of suspension of disbelief? You are a better person than I for trying to change his mind.

[stonemaybe]

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but there is an interesting book called "The Years of Rice and Salt" by Kim Stanley-Robinson. It's an alternative (theoretical!) history of the the last 1000 years, imagining what would have happened if Europe had ceased to be an influence. While not perfect, you can tell the author has done a bit of research into science, medicine and technology from central Asia etc. A lot of this stuff was around a long time ago, but for various reasons was kept secret, or we only learn about it as a "western" invention.

Now that is BIZARRE !

I had that book in my hand not 3 hours ago in my fave 2nd hand bookshop. will have to go back and buy it now, sounds interesting.
(I was actually moving it out of the way to see something else!)

I enjoyed the film, in answer to your question. I thought they cast the Spartans well, that is what I consider ancient Greeks to look like (in fact, didn't one of the councillors look very like ..was it Socrates?... in the Monty Python football sketch!)

I'm not going to be raving about it to my friends, and to tell you the truth the most enjoyable bit was conversation related above.

I always thought (probably wrongly) that the phal of phalanx was pronounced to rhyme with 'call me AL', not 'faylanx' and that annoyed me! Still, that's not a major thing to be annoyed about!

And though I kind of understand your friend's view, he must be a real miserable so-and-so and you could probably get him to boycott just about every book and film ever made by pointing out certain bits.

[Waddley]

I'm no good at pronunciation, but I always thought they sounded similar... so are the words phalanx and flanks (like on a horse) related?

[Loredoctor]

Yeah, I've heard the 'racism' argument a few times now. Apparently 300 demonises Asians and Iranians. The fact that, broadly, this stuff actually happened appears to be irrelevant to these people.

No, what they are referring to is the element of bisexuality in Xerxes and the monstrous imagery of the Persians.

[Lord Mhoram]

Reave the Unjust,

The concept of East vs. West may be as old as civilization itself, seemingly, but that does not justify anything. The fact remains that the Persians are portrayed as authoritarian, strange, foreign, invasive, and contrary to everything that the West seems to stand for. The Spartans, on the other hand, are heroic, brave, democratic, and ultimately made to appear sympathetic because they defend liberty and tradition. Franky, while the film is visually stunning and the fight scenes are incredible, it's propaganda to a disturbing degree.

[Vain]

I enjoyed this review:

"300 is not a complicated film. It's going to be widely ridiculed and rightly so, because viewed with the slightest critical distance it becomes extremely funny, but taken on it's own terms - as Greek myth meets Looney Tunes - it's kind of a masterpiece..."

and this one:

"Visually stunning, thoroughly belligerent and as shallow as a pygmy’s paddling pool, this is a whole heap of style tinged with just a smidgen of substance..."

I obviously need to go watch this !