Kevin's Watch

Thouroughly enjoyed, MM.

me TOO!! thanks MM!!!

Likewise! I especially like this line:

...before stomping the roses underfoot.

Little did you know you were foreshadowing Physical Graffiti

Damn good review MM.

House of the Holy is definitely my favorite Zep album. It's catchy but never wears thin. Page's guitar playing is inspired on "Song Remains the Same", and there's just an overall feeling that they're enjoying themselves (rather than trying to top IV).

Not sure if I found "No Quarter" too mannered. Maybe stately and Pink Floyd-ish.

HotH has some great songs on it, but it never really gelled for me as an album in the same way that Presence did. Presence has always been the underappreciated gem in the Zeppelin discography, in that it's so far out there. It bears almost no resemblance to LZ-I, but it's clearly the same band. Maybe it's because the Presence songs never get any airplay, but I find that I never tire of hearing them.

You know, I really like Presence as well, except for "Achilles' Last Stand". (My guess is that Cail, at least, will strongly disagree. ) The rest of the album is fantastic, and I think that Cail's point about the airplay time is a good one.

"Achilles' " though, never really meshed for me. It seemed like they trying to hard to make an epic, and it came out sort of forced. Not that it's bad, (I mean, hey, it's still Led Zeppelin) but it just isn't one of my favorites.

Heh, yeah, I think it's their best song; the wall of guitars, the drums (my God Bonzo just brings it), the lyrics, and the thumping bass. To me, Achilles' is proof positive that Zeppelin was the best band, ever.

The cool thing about Presence, aside from the departure from where the band had been (this is the same band that did "Communication Breakdown", and nothing on the album sounds remotely close to that song), is that it sounded nothing like anything else that was around in 1976.

Presence

Achilles Last Stand
youtube.com/watch?v=-ArWLI908i4

For Your Life
youtube.com/watch?v=Dn_r2jZ-bOA

Nobody's Fault But Mine
youtube.com/watch?v=jyCRS0DgRaU

Candy Store Rock
youtube.com/watch?v=ho1LI3jzb4w

Hots On For Nowhere
youtube.com/watch?v=jKMet_KnM7E

Tea for One
youtube.com/watch?v=ct-0ttKThbE

thought I had posted this before, but could not find it.

I love Achilles and For Your Life. The rest of the album is good, but it doesn't quite get me like Physical G or Houses. I don't really see Presence as much of a departure... the early albums were 6 years earlier. It seems to follow pretty naturally from PG. And if anything, Houses is a bigger departure from the early sound because much of it is almost prog. Some of Presence is almost a return to the early style.

BTW, here's Royal Orleans

I've heard Presence described as having a more "stripped down" sound, and aside from Achilles', I think that's true. A lot of the eastern-type influences (the droning of Kashmir, In The Light, Bron-yr-aur) is absent, and it's more clearly blues-based rock again. But I think it carries a lot more punch than the straight rock stuff on some of the early albums. I love the groove on Hots On For Nowhere, and Nobody's Fault has always been one of my favorite Zep tunes. I just love that moment when the harmonica solo cuts in over the rest of the band. Just great. For Your Life is oustanding, too.

Presence is stripped down, in the sense that there are no keyboards, but the production is hardly stripped down.

Ok, point taken. There's probably just as many guitar overdubs and layering. The music just seems to have more "space" in it and feels more "open". And I recognize that's not a particularly clear description, but I can't think of a better one.

Physical Graffiti is probably the biggest, baddest, most overindulgent rock double album ever made -- so it appeals on that level to the true Zep fans who love the swagger and strut of the first 6 albums. Then again PG probably spurred the development of Punk Rock more than any other single album, not because of its self-important 'experiementation' or multiple 'epic' tracks (some approach the 15 min mark), larger-and-longer-than-life guitar solos, and Plant's vocalized mojo. And not because all of this was 'bad' coming from Zep (it was good in the same way a chocolate fudge caramel cheesecake is good) -- but because it inspired imitations which were sure to be very, very bad: overindulgence of the truly gifted became self-indulgence of the less-talented. Only Led Zeppelin had the virtuosity to get away with this kind of epic overindulgence, do not try this at home! But unfortunately some did and it killed rock'n'roll for nearly 10 years.

Ironically, I guess you might say, Presence is a reaction to this culminating moment of overindulgence -- yet by stripping down it missed its earlier audience that loved that kind of thing, and Zep's iconic status prevented them from breaking through to a new audience with different sensibilities. Led Zeppelin would always be Led Zeppelin, and no one not even Led Zeppelin could change that. But, posterity was left with a record as tight and driven as PG is loose and meandering (even though there are still moments of indulgence -- can the leopard change his spots?). It is amazing that the same band can pull off both sensibilities within a year of one another, with equal sincerity (if unequal success).

I like the epic tracks in Presence, such as "Tea for One", "Nobody's Fault but Mine", "For Your Life", and of course, "Achilles".

But I dunno: the rest of the lightweight material just isn't as good as the throwaways on Houses of the Holy or Graffiti. There's a feeling of trying to assert themselves, rather than letting loose and acting silly: I believe Page did all the guitar overdubs in two days. It reminds me of the rushed feeling on Zep II, where recording circumstances were similar. Surely it's complex, but I also sense a rawness to the overall mix and a greater simplicity to the riffs. That's either good or bad, depending on your tastes.

I think the band should've given themselves more time: Plant was in a freaking wheelchair, for chirssake! Had they toured that year and flexed their muscles, they might've found some good ideas. Sometimes I kinda wish they'd combined the best material of Presence and In Through the Out Door. I have a mix album of Zep's late works, and the playlist is thus:

1) Achilles Last Stand
2) Fool in the Rain
3) Nobody's Fault But Mine
4) All My Love
5) In the Evening
6) I'm Gonna Crawl

Only six songs, but Zep's penchant for length makes it clock in at 41 minutes. Oh well. No use grousing over the past; it's like wishing The Beatles had never released Let It Be (or at least released it before Abbey Road). In fact, now that I think of it, Presence reminds me very much of Let It Be.

I dunno about more time. I think the album comes off well as is, and more time would have probably ended up in a more bloated sound.

Mortice Root wrote:I would also include In Through The Out Door with my favorites, though. That album always really sounded like they were pushing themselves to find new strengths. Such a different sound. It really seemed like a big transformation was starting, and it would have been incredible to see where it would have taken them.

Cail wrote:ITtOD has some brilliant stuff. I particularly like "Carouselambra", as it really hits at what the band may have sounded like had they continued on.

Carouselambra floored me when I first heard it. It became my favorite 10-minute rock epic right then and there. I agree, ITtOD sure did sound like the start of something new for the band, but far from being some weak "transitional" piece, I think it stands up as a great album in its own right.

Guess I never mentioned it before, but my favorite Zep albums are ITtOD, ZOSO, and Houses of the Holy. Inspired by this thread, I listened to all of Presence last night (I think for only the 2nd time since I bought it). However, I find that, aside from Achilles' Last Stand, I'm still having trouble getting into the album.

I have no problem calling Achilles' Last Stand as Led Zep's greatest song. It's certainly one of the most awesome rock songs I've ever heard. (In this poll, I voted for "other" cuz I wanted to cheer for my "sentimental" favorite song, All of My Love.)

exnihilo wrote:PG probably spurred the development of Punk Rock more than any other single album, not because of its self-important 'experiementation' or multiple 'epic' tracks (some approach the 15 min mark), larger-and-longer-than-life guitar solos, and Plant's vocalized mojo. And not because all of this was 'bad' coming from Zep (it was good in the same way a chocolate fudge caramel cheesecake is good) -- but because it inspired imitations which were sure to be very, very bad: overindulgence of the truly gifted became self-indulgence of the less-talented. Only Led Zeppelin had the virtuosity to get away with this kind of epic overindulgence, do not try this at home!

Well said! Bravo!

Thank you!

exnihilo wrote:Thank you!

so Zeppelin is to blame for yes?

Not only that, but "The Rain Song" ended up spawning a flurry of drippy 80s power-ballads. Not that I don't like The Rain Song.