NLRB allows College Football Players to Unionize

[SoulBiter]

Well then, I say NOPE to your NOPE. Luckily for them, (or maybe unluckily depending on your viewpoint) that is just your opinion which appears to be colored by a extreme dislike for Unions in any way shape form or manner.

These kids/young adults are being taken advantage of. Under your choice, they can only not take the scholarship and find another way to college. Under the choice they have taken, they have an opportunity to change things for the better. As I have stated before, I suspect the NCAA and the schools will not be ending their programs due to this. If it was that important to them, they would do so.

[Cail]

I do passionately dislike unions, you'll get no denial from me.

But under no use of the English language are student athletes employees. Similarly, under no definition are they anything other than legal adults who can enter into contracts.

The NCAA (and NFL, MLB, etc) are all the result of government tampering, ridiculous subsidies, and trust-like monopolies. Do they all need reform? Sure, absolutely. But adding another corrupt group to suck up more cash isn't the answer.

[SerScot]

Cail,

Is an apprentice who works for a master without pay an employee?

[Cail]

Cail,

Is an apprentice who works for a master without pay an employee?

That has nothing to do with this discussion.

But can I assume you're against unpaid internships?

[SerScot]

Not against, I'm against their being abused. I think that if someone is injured in the course of work during an unpaid internship there is an obligation on the part of the person providing the intership to care for the intern.

[Cail]

Not against, I'm against their being abused. I think that if someone is injured in the course of work during an unpaid internship there is an obligation on the part of the person providing the intership to care for the intern.

If that's negotiated away ahead of time, what's the problem.

This sure sounds like an, "I know what's best for you" argument.

[SerScot]

No, it sounds like a 'holy shit I could get really hurt doing this and there's nothing in the existing agreement to protect me' problem.

Not every contract should be enforceable simply because it was agreed to. If the terms are unconsionable, like when you wave any right to health care help after you are crippled and kicked off the team for being crippled, they shouldn't be enforced and people should be allowed to renegotiate.

[Cail]

No, it sounds like a 'holy shit I could get really hurt doing this and there's nothing in the existing agreement to protect me' problem.

Then holy shit they shouldn't have agreed to it. It's bullshit to agree to a mutually beneficial contract, then attempt renegotiate it after the fact.

Not every contract should be enforceable simply because it was agreed to. If the terms are unconsionable, like when you wave any right to health care help after you are crippled and kicked off the team for being crippled, they shouldn't be enforced and people should be allowed to renegotiate.

Unconscionable to you. Apparently not to the people who are agreeing to the terms.

[SoulBiter]

Under that logic, I should still be making $2.25 per hour. OK thats a bit extreme but the logic is the same. I went to work where I do originally for 10$ per hour. 14 years ago.

But even this year, I was able to negotiate more money for what I do. I didnt change jobs, I just made a good case for "why I should be paid more". But according to what you just said, I should just take what they give me since I signed a contract (of sorts) when I went to work there. I knew what the job pays and I have only two choices.
1. Take what they give me,
2. find a new job.

I chose option number three, renegotiate with my employer.

[Cail]

Under that logic, I should still be making $2.25 per hour. OK thats a bit extreme but the logic is the same. I went to work where I do originally for 10$ per hour. 14 years ago.

But even this year, I was able to negotiate more money for what I do. I didnt change jobs, I just made a good case for "why I should be paid more". But according to what you just said, I should just take what they give me since I signed a contract (of sorts) when I went to work there. I knew what the job pays and I have only two choices.
1. Take what they give me,
2. find a new job.

I chose option number three, renegotiate with my employer.

Did you sign a contract (of sorts) or did you sign a contract? Was your contract term 4 years (or another short, finite term) or was it open-ended?

Funny, but union supporters went ballistic when the auto companies wanted to renegotiate their contracts, but it's fine for employees or unions to change the terms of employment.

Oh, and you didn't mention if you were in a union or if you negotiated on your own.

[SoulBiter]

AHAHHAHAHA No Union. Never worked for one and hope I never do. I don't have much use for them. I know you wouldnt know it from this thread. I dont support Unions. I do however see the good they 'could' do and have done in the past.

My contract is open ended. If either me or my employer decide that I'm not worth what I'm paid, either of us can terminate our agreement at will. So a typical job.

[Cail]

AHAHHAHAHA No Union. Never worked for one and hope I never do. I don't have much use for them. I know you wouldnt know it from this thread. I dont support Unions. I do however see the good they 'could' do and have done in the past.

My contract is open ended. If either me or my employer decide that I'm not worth what I'm paid, either of us can terminate our agreement at will. So a typical job.

So it's not really analogous.

[Cail]

After doing some looking, here's the issue with the NCAA...

There's no farm system for the NFL like there is for MLB. The NFLPA (a union) has prevented players from joining the league out of high school (they must be out for at least 3 years). So that makes the NCAA the de facto training league for the pros. Whether or not a player wants to (or should) go to college, they have to if they want to be eligible for the NFL draft.

So that puts the players into a position in which they either accept what the NCAA is doing and the conditions of scholarships, or they don't play.

This is, of course, BS.

[Rawedge Rim]

No, it sounds like a 'holy shit I could get really hurt doing this and there's nothing in the existing agreement to protect me' problem.

Not every contract should be enforceable simply because it was agreed to. If the terms are unconsionable, like when you wave any right to health care help after you are crippled and kicked off the team for being crippled, they shouldn't be enforced and people should be allowed to renegotiate.

So Jimmy "I can catch better than most people" gets a football scholarship and plays barely good enough for college, but the reality sets in that he ain't gonna make the NFL. The coach is considering cutting him because of his marginal play. So he goes on the field one day, lets himself take a bad hit, and gets up and claims that he has recieved a career ending concussion.

Should this player continue to have his college paid for by the college? Unless the college can prove that this player is full of it, should they have to continue to pay this person for years afterwards? Whose choice was it to play a game that anyone with the brain larger than a mustard seed realizes isn't safe?

someone please answer this:

What would these people be doing if not for football scholarships? (I know, scholar and football are hardly synomous).


espn.go.com/college-sports/story/_/id/9873192/notre-dame-comes-winner-graduation-rates

Eighty-two percent of athletes in the 2006-07 freshman class earned their diplomas, matching a one-year record. Graduation rates over the four-year span hit 81 percent, also a 1-percentage-point increase and another record.

The one-year measuring stick among black female athletes improved from 76 percent in 2005-06 to 78 percent in 2006-07.

And players in the Football Bowl Subdivision topped last year's record high of 70 percent by hitting 71 percent thanks to a 4-percentage-point jump, to 84 percent, among white FBS players and 2-percentage-point jump, to 64 percent, among black FBS players.

Alabama, which has won the past two BCS titles and is ranked No. 1 this season, finished at 73 percent, ahead of football's four-year average (70 percent). Notre Dame, which lost in January's BCS title game, had a grad rate of 94 percent.

[SoulBiter]

AHAHHAHAHA No Union. Never worked for one and hope I never do. I don't have much use for them. I know you wouldnt know it from this thread. I dont support Unions. I do however see the good they 'could' do and have done in the past.

My contract is open ended. If either me or my employer decide that I'm not worth what I'm paid, either of us can terminate our agreement at will. So a typical job.

So it's not really analogous.

Its the same choices.

1. keep doing what they are
2. Quit and do something different.
3. Try to get a better deal

Its the same for me. I have the same choices if I'm dissatisfied at work.

[Cail]

AHAHHAHAHA No Union. Never worked for one and hope I never do. I don't have much use for them. I know you wouldnt know it from this thread. I dont support Unions. I do however see the good they 'could' do and have done in the past.

My contract is open ended. If either me or my employer decide that I'm not worth what I'm paid, either of us can terminate our agreement at will. So a typical job.

So it's not really analogous.

Its the same choices.

1. keep doing what they are
2. Quit and do something different.
3. Try to get a better deal

Its the same for me. I have the same choices if I'm dissatisfied at work.

Dude, there's a world of difference between you negotiating for yourself and you paying dues to a union that does it "for you".

[SerScot]

Cail,

Think of it this way. What will an NCAA school say if an individual athelete attempts to negotiate different terms for his or her scholarship? Now, try that again with every athelete looking for similar terms.

[SoulBiter]

So it's not really analogous.

Its the same choices.

1. keep doing what they are
2. Quit and do something different.
3. Try to get a better deal

Its the same for me. I have the same choices if I'm dissatisfied at work.

Dude, there's a world of difference between you negotiating for yourself and you paying dues to a union that does it "for you".

Only because of your dislike for organized Unions in general. It colors your opinions in this matter. Your discussion always goes back to, "you dont like it, go somewhere else", as if that were the only choice available.

From what I read here, you dont work for corporate America. But I can tell you. They use their collective resources of the Large Corporation, to ensure you are paid the least you can be for what you do. Its not always as easy as, going somewhere else.

I dont think we are going to find common ground here. Its just Yes, No, Yes, No, Yes, No... over and over.

So I am going to drop out of this thread and Respectfully agree to disagree on this issue.