Kevin's Watch

theDespiser wrote:i still think that Snape looked inside DD's mind, saw that he was already dead(from drinking the potion to get the horcrux) and they both decided to use it to their advantage, 'cementing' Snapes position with voldemort...all those years in DD's service at the school, now its time for him to serve on the other side, when its most crucial...

DD is an accomplished Legillimens, so I doubt it would be possible. Although, Snape did fool Voldy...

Spring wrote: Although, Snape did fool Voldy...

Ah, but did he really? That's the whole point, isn't it? Who's he been fooling all this time, Voldemort or Dumbledore?

Well, he seemingly did. But no matter who he fooled, he would have to fool the other, and Dumbledore and Voldemort are very powerful wizards.

Poor, poor Snapey. I would feel sorry for him, but then again,

Spoiler

he killed Dumbledore.

Nothing can redeem him, imho.

what i meant was that DD was communicating with Snape through his thoughts...telling snape to do it, as he was already dead anyway

That's the running theory, but the intensity of the spell leaves me wondering... Snape must really have hated Dumbledore to send his body flying up above the ramparts before it fell.

Here are some thoughts that I had. Mainly they are in regards to Snapes character. A very central character that has developed in interesting directions. We have been very carefully kept in the dark about some of the things to do with Snape by the very clever Mz Rowlings. The main point to me is WHY did DD trust snape to such extreme. What ever the reason I am sure we will find out in the next book. I happen to think that in his past he had something very horrible happen to him (much as Harry himself did) That this event is what ties him to Voldermort and makes Voldermort trust him and also to DD and also makes DD trust him. It was something very terrible but not widely known. In fact I would bet that Snape, Voldermort and DD are the only ones who know about it.

I think Snape HATES Voldermort as much or even more than Harry does. That Snape wants Voldermort destroyed. That one of the reasons that Snape dislikes Harry is because Harry is openly on the side of good. That Harry is adored by the wizarding world and able to fight Voldermort openly. Snape must hide in his role of double agent and be trusted by no one. In some ways he is the anti-Harry, He wants the same thing Harry wants, but to do it he will use dark magic, he will kill, he will sacrafice anyone he needs, to get Voldermort dead. So he is not 'good' but he does want the same thing Harry wants, just for very different reasons. Snape is bitter because living this way would make anyone bitter.

I think DD was already dead from the potion that he had taken and that Snape new it. I had not thought about the whole Malfoy remaining innocent thing, but it fits.

I think that Snape is the one who took the horcrux (no telling who he sacrificed) And that Snape is trying to get to all the horcrux befor Harry. In some way he is in compatition with Harry. He wants to kill Voldermort befor Harry can, for reasons of his own.

I feel sure that in the last book something will be revealed about Snape that will change everyones opinion of him. He is by nature a loner and has an overwhelming desire to prove himself. I think he will. My greatest fear for Snape (and Harry) is that in trying to destroy Voldermort, Snape will become the next dark lord. I think that Harry will be responsible for pulling Snape back from that brink.

DD is definately dead. He has to be to make the final battle even.
Harry is a fool for pushing Ginnie away. If he wants to protect her he should keep her close.
There will be casualties, but I dont know who.
I am sure we will be back at hogwarts, there is something there that Voldermort wants.
I feel sure we will see Sirius again.

Alynna Lis Eachann wrote:That's the running theory, but the intensity of the spell leaves me wondering... Snape must really have hated Dumbledore to send his body flying up above the ramparts before it fell.

well, nobody said he was in love with DD...maybe he did it to make it look good, or maybe DD had a spell that would take effect when he died, and snape didnt want the other DEs to see, or maybe it was the heat of the moment, or maybe it was just that DD was so close to the window..

and as far as Snape getting the Horcrux, the person who took it lef the initials RB...Regulus Black(thats the running theory)...he may still be dead, but i think that its a foregone conclusion that the horcrux was in #12 Grimuld place, cuz Regulus hid it there...and now that the house is Harrys...so is the Horcrux..its been said somewhere amongst these pages...i agree with that theory as well...

I don't see any reason to believe that R.B. is Regulus Black. I mean apart from the initial thing R.B. could stand for anything. We didn't know who the half blood prince was until we got the the end of book six so why should we know who R.B. is. I think that R.B. being Regulus Black is way to obvious and so not possibly the right answer. We do know that Snape does not call himself the half blood prince anymore, so maybe he calls himself something else now, with the initials R.B. I can't imagine that he calls himself Snape.

-just a thought

Some ideas to stir into the pot:

1) The portrait is not proof of DD's death. Just that he is no longer headmaster. Remember Gilderoy's portrait of himself.

2) Dumbledore trusts Snape. Why? What if Snape made an unbreakable vow to Dumbledore those many years ago?

3) Snape says to Narcissa and Bellatrix that he doesn't believe Harry has any special abilities but he has observed Harry's actions over 5 years (speaks Parsel, keeps defeating Voldemort, wins TriWizard, etc). Why lie?

4) Snape was caught out into making the unbreakable vows to Narcissa but told DD about them so DD was aware and could prepare.

5) DD froze Harry to let things take their course so his plan can be fulfilled

6) DD pleads with Snape to fulfill the PLAN and the look on Snape's face was hatred for what he had to do.

7) People can survive the unforgivable curses, especially when the caster is not determined (Harry at end of OoP told by Death Eater after failing at curse that you have to mean it)

8.) There is a potion that makes you appear to be dead (Draught of Living Death or something). What if Dumbledore drank it after 'falling' from the tower to appear dead?

9) Fawkes could heal DD with his tears if DD is just badly injured/poisoned/etc.

10) Does Snape know what Malfoy had to do. When he bursts onto the tower top and Amycus says 'the boy doesn't seem able-' DD interupts saying 'Severus'. Snape hasn't been told what Malfoy has been ordered to do (Malfoy resisted his help or telling details Snape throughout the year) so he is NOT bound by the final vow at this point. He may assume what it is but he does not know. Therefore he can blast DD without killing him.

Two thoughts:

Spoiler

If Snape is truly on Voldemort's side, then he would have told Voldemort about Dumbledore's dead-hand. So wouldn't Voldemort have recognised the curse he placed on Marvolo's ring and known that Dumbledore was going after the horcruxes?

Also, in an interview J.K. Rowling was asked if there was anyone else in Godric's Hollow on the night James and Lily Potter were killed/ She refused to comment.

Someone mentioned once that maybe Snape was in love with Lilly.
So..........any chance that Harry is Snapes son?
I don't like the idea myself but that would be pretty wild.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Someone mentioned once that maybe Snape was in love with Lilly.
So..........any chance that Harry is Snapes son?
I don't like the idea myself but that would be pretty wild.

That question has been fanfic fodder for years. Every theory on how it happened, every resolution... I think it's been written from every imaginable angle. It's also completely against the way JK Rowling deals with family issues, so I seriously doubt it's going to turn out to be true.

I've been mulling over the whole Snape/Dumbledore/loyalty thing, and as much as I hope that there was a plan between Snape and Dumbledore, I am becoming more convinced that Snape simply took advantage of the situation as a whole. After stumbling into the Vow, he decided that survival was a pretty sweet deal, regardless of whose side he was on, and decided to kill Dumbldore to a) stay alive and b) raise himself up in Voldemort's eyes. That's the kind of person he is, after all.

Of course, I dearly hope I'm wrong. I have faith in Severus, but I don't have faith in Rowling, especially after the things she's implied about Snape in various interviews.

Alynna Lis Eachann wrote:

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Someone mentioned once that maybe Snape was in love with Lilly.
So..........any chance that Harry is Snapes son?
I don't like the idea myself but that would be pretty wild.

That question has been fanfic fodder for years. Every theory on how it happened, every resolution... I think it's been written from every imaginable angle.

I'm not a fan fiction type of guy.
The idea just popped into my head.
What is a good fan-fic site for Potter?
Actually the whole fan-fic idea sounds pretty weird considering that the story isn't finished yet.

High Lord Tolkien wrote: I'm not a fan fiction type of guy.
The idea just popped into my head.
What is a good fan-fic site for Potter?
Actually the whole fan-fic idea sounds pretty weird considering that the story isn't finished yet.

It's a nice escape when things turn out horribly wrong in canon. I believe fanfic originated with Star Trek, but possibly earlier. People like to write their own endings for stuff, and play around with characters they like to read about. Gets a bit intense sometimes, though. The fights people have over fanfic are astounding. Anyway, if you want to get your feet wet in some HP fic, try www.fictionalley.org/ . Its "subsidiary" sites are www.thedarkarts.org (darker themes), www.schnoogle.com (novel-length fics) , www.astronomytower.org/ (romance) and www.riddikulus.org/ (humor). All HP fic, all the time, probably the biggest/most popular HP fic site out there. Some of their stuff is pretty lousy, but you can find some excellent work as well. If nothing else, it'll give you a glimpse into the minds of HP fans.

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Someone mentioned once that maybe Snape was in love with Lilly.
So..........any chance that Harry is Snapes son?
I don't like the idea myself but that would be pretty wild.

I think that one is pretty unlikely, however, J. K. Rowling did say in the same interview that unlike Voldemort, Snape has loved and been loved in return.

variol son wrote:

High Lord Tolkien wrote:Someone mentioned once that maybe Snape was in love with Lilly.
So..........any chance that Harry is Snapes son?
I don't like the idea myself but that would be pretty wild.

I think that one is pretty unlikely, however, J. K. Rowling did say in the same interview that unlike Voldemort, Snape has loved and been loved in return.

Lilly's sister?

Alynna's right.
It's endless!

I'm inclined to believe that Rowling was talking about Eileen Prince, Severus's mother. Maybe he was romantically involved at some point, but I tend to believe that he had a strong relationship with his mother, and his Muggle father somehow destroyed it. Remember the fight between Snape's parents that Harry saw in Snape's memories?

Mistweave wrote:Some ideas to stir into the pot:

1) The portrait is not proof of DD's death. Just that he is no longer headmaster. Remember Gilderoy's portrait of himself.

It is proof he's believed to be dead, I think

Mistweave wrote:2) Dumbledore trusts Snape. Why? What if Snape made an unbreakable vow to Dumbledore those many years ago?

I concur.

Mistweave wrote:3) Snape says to Narcissa and Bellatrix that he doesn't believe Harry has any special abilities but he has observed Harry's actions over 5 years (speaks Parsel, keeps defeating Voldemort, wins TriWizard, etc). Why lie?

I believe Snape and Dumbledore had a plan that Snape would have to kill him, if it came down to it, and that's what Hagrid heard them arguing about.

Mistweave wrote:4) Snape was caught out into making the unbreakable vows to Narcissa but told DD about them so DD was aware and could prepare.

5) DD froze Harry to let things take their course so his plan can be fulfilled

6) DD pleads with Snape to fulfill the PLAN and the look on Snape's face was hatred for what he had to do.

7) People can survive the unforgivable curses, especially when the caster is not determined (Harry at end of OoP told by Death Eater after failing at curse that you have to mean it)

8.) There is a potion that makes you appear to be dead (Draught of Living Death or something). What if Dumbledore drank it after 'falling' from the tower to appear dead?

9) Fawkes could heal DD with his tears if DD is just badly injured/poisoned/etc.

I think Dumbledore really needs to be dead to advance Harry to the next level, and for the story in general. I will be shocked if JKR didn't kill Dumbledore, and I will be unhappy if she doesn't have some incredibly good footwork to back it up.

Mistweave wrote:10) Does Snape know what Malfoy had to do. When he bursts onto the tower top and Amycus says 'the boy doesn't seem able-' DD interupts saying 'Severus'. Snape hasn't been told what Malfoy has been ordered to do (Malfoy resisted his help or telling details Snape throughout the year) so he is NOT bound by the final vow at this point. He may assume what it is but he does not know. Therefore he can blast DD without killing him.

Snape promised to help Malfoy complete his mission if he's unable, he didn't promise a specific thing, so it doesn't matter wether he knew what Malfoy's mission was, he had to help complete it regardless.

I will be more surprised if Snape really wasn't following Dumbledore's orders to kill him. In fact, I think I might actually prefer that, as, to me it really would be unexpected.

The Leper Messiah wrote:I don't see any reason to believe that R.B. is Regulus Black. I mean apart from the initial thing R.B. could stand for anything. We didn't know who the half blood prince was until we got the the end of book six so why should we know who R.B. is. I think that R.B. being Regulus Black is way to obvious and so not possibly the right answer. We do know that Snape does not call himself the half blood prince anymore, so maybe he calls himself something else now, with the initials R.B. I can't imagine that he calls himself Snape.

-just a thought

RAB, actually, and we don't know what Regulus' middle name is.

Keep in mind, also, there is a locket that was found in 12 Grimmauld place in OotP, that they couldn't get opened. So, that makes it more likely that RAB is Regulus. However, since Kreacher squirreled away stuff, stuff got thrown out, and Mundungus has been selling stuff off, that locket can now be anywhere.