Kevin's Watch

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:The Arguleh made a deal with the croyel...the question is exactly what was their intent, probably, "we hate warmth, arrr!!!"

Aren't the Arghuleh basically just animals?

I think their intelligence is probably like a dolphin, just on Land, that hates warmth, probably because warmth hates them...I guess they do have the ability to seek other beings and communicate.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I think their intelligence is probably like a dolphin, just on Land, that hates warmth, probably because warmth hates them...I guess they do have the ability to seek other beings and communicate.

Nice try!

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:The Arguleh made a deal with the croyel...the question is exactly what was their intent, probably, "we hate warmth, arrr!!!"

I am not so sure that the Arguleh made a "deal" with the croyel. Since they hate each other and kill each other on sight, the possibility of them doing anything collectively is relatively small. It is more likely a croyel got a hold of one and subverted the rest of them, more like a possession of the arguleh...which is in line with many of the 2nd chrons' themes.

Aaahhh. Got it.

Serendipity need not equate to contrived.

I see the conflict with the croyel-driven Arguleh as another opportunity created by Foul to test Covenant's restraint with the wild magic. Every threat to TC's friends represents an opportunity for the Arch of Time to be broken.

This conflict also allows for Hamako and the Waynhim to find an end worthy of such faithful defenders of the Land.

Perhaps there is serendipity in the fact that multiple portions of the story are served by these encounters:

1) Hamako and the Rhysh
2) testing TC
3) introducing new mysteries of the Land
4) adding tension to the journey back to the Land
5) filler to make the publisher happy?

Anyway...what was the topic? Oh yeah, least favorite book in the Chrons. I will leave out the Last Chrons in honor of the spirit of this thread when it was begun. I love all the books and first read them back in the 70's when they were originally published.

For many years my least favorite was TIW because I really disliked HT (What a Berk") and his battle tactics. The POV change was also unsettling. I have come to accept the necessity though - CC had to come into being somehow - and there are some really great chapters, so much so that it is now one of my favorites even with the Berk. In fact I am just finishing a re-read of it as part of my full review of the Chron's in conjunction with the Dissection.

LFB is just a great book, introducing us to the complexity, beauty, and peril that is ahead of us.

TWL was tough for me in the beginning -

give him back something broken

- and it is redeemed in grand style in the final chapters. The caamora at The Grieve might just be my favorite fantasy literature moment of all time.

TOT - I still find it hard to imagine anyone complaining about sailing the high seas with Giants, being introduced to Nom, and the extremity of the Search's plight in Braithairealm.

WGW - does not have the same redemptive quality to it, for me as the reader, that TWL does. From a standpoint of the story-telling the redemption value is way up there to be sure. But to me it didn't have the impact, or the surprise element, contained in TWL when we renew our acquaintance with the Giants.

TPTP - I think I have re-read this one the least number of times - does that qualify it as my least favorite? My impression of it is that it is the darkest and most oppressive - there seems to be no hope for anyone anywhere at any time. Eternal winter, green moons, the people of the Land scattered and starving, emaciated Ranyhyn, dead Unfettered Ones, the seemingly unlimited versatility and invincibility of the Stone. The beginning of TWL gave me a similar sense of oppression, but not as pervasive.

I suspect I am in the minority here regarding TPTP, and when I begin my re-read with the Dissections perhaps my perception will be different.

Curious - the last book in each trilogy hold the least allure for me.

Same here. I felt like...just get back to Mhoram, darnit! And though I love M, I feel it was that the other story threads just weren't as good as M's story thread.

I loved it ALL! But why oh why would you start THIS thread in the part that only deals with the first 2 Chrons?????

Personally if I had to pick out a Least Fave book out of the first 6, I have to go for The One Tree. Simply because of the ending. They fail to get the branch of the One Tree, Seadreamer dies and have to go home. I find it a very unsatisfying end to a book. Everything else is brilliant - the Giants, Kasreyn & the Sandgorgons, fleeing from the harbour, the Elohim.. But the way it ended is a bit of a turn off. I know it had to go that way, obviously, but I think it's a poor way to end a book.

Because I'm almost finished with RotE and then I have to read FR (I put it off, scared)...so's I couldn't comment on these last two. And so far, 4/5 through, Runes is unanimously the worst. Period. IMO, of course.

But why oh why would you start THIS thread in the part that only deals with the first 2 Chrons?????

There are responses from 2002 in this thread...before ROTE was released.

If I had to guess, RoTE would get the most votes for least favorite if Last Chrons are included. Funny thing though...RoTE is growing on me a little as I reflect on the overall scope of the story. It may never be the most popular of the 10 books when the story is all said and done, however I believe that most everyone will acknowledge its necessity.

I choose to trust SRD.

I don't agree. SRD could condense it to half it's length. Part of the sheer length of the book is in the margins, there's not nearly as much text as the other books, and he could also do some of the same with FR, though I'm guessing really, and put the two together, or FR and the next...

...he did say that he had originally intended the 2nd Chrons to be four books...I think the Last would benefit from him having to squeeze out only three the same.

Also, I know that most would consider Runes the weakest link, so including it would be pointless.

I personally wish he never wrote it.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I don't agree.

Someone on the internet is actually disagreeing with someone else?

The fun is in stating the obvious.

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I don't agree. SRD could condense it to half it's length...[edit]

...he did say that he had originally intended the 2nd Chrons to be four books...I think the Last would benefit from him having to squeeze out only three the same.

Reminds me of that scene in Amadeus:

Emperor Joseph II: My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

For those of us playing at home: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCud8H7z7vU&feature=related

Seareach wrote:

jacob Raver, sinTempter wrote:I don't agree. SRD could condense it to half it's length...[edit]

...he did say that he had originally intended the 2nd Chrons to be four books...I think the Last would benefit from him having to squeeze out only three the same.

Reminds me of that scene in Amadeus:

Emperor Joseph II: My dear young man, don't take it too hard. Your work is ingenious. It's quality work. And there are simply too many notes, that's all. Just cut a few and it will be perfect.
Mozart: Which few did you have in mind, Majesty?

For those of us playing at home: www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCud8H7z7vU&feature=related

Indeed. Perhaps the 2nd Chrons would have been better if he had been allowed to write them as four as he had originally intended.

The Eighth Ward wrote:
TPTP - I think I have re-read this one the least number of times - does that qualify it as my least favorite? My impression of it is that it is the darkest and most oppressive - there seems to be no hope for anyone anywhere at any time. Eternal winter, green moons, the people of the Land scattered and starving, emaciated Ranyhyn, dead Unfettered Ones, the seemingly unlimited versatility and invincibility of the Stone. The beginning of TWL gave me a similar sense of oppression, but not as pervasive.

It's eerie how accurately your words sum up my own feelings about TPTP - even in the comparison with TWL!

I have also re-read TPTP the least number of times. But I also have no problem praising it as a great TC book. It has some of the most disturbing scenes in all the Chronicles (such as those you referred to), as well as some of the most heroic.

Crap, don't have the books here with me. Whichever one has the entire chapter named Hile Troy, and the battle where so many people died just from marching. That made me grind my teeth, people. And HT was so maddening to me. It's like, get over it, dude, your ego is so huge, do you really have to prove yourself superior? If Elena doesn't love you as a person, she's not going to fall in love with you for winning a war. Troy lovers, please don't bash me; I got enough of that in the other thread........

I doubt there's any Troy lovers here.

I love Troy.

I don't understand reading any book in a series more than others. If I start, I have to finish all three. (Gap was different: I reread each as the next one came out.)

I agree about the last book of each series being the weakest. However, they also had some of the best scenes (Mhoram's victory, the siege of Revelstone, the Banefire, Apotheosis, etc.). Basically, I didn't like when either series dealt with a lot of trudging around in the snow. FR gets my vote for the best snow scenes.

This thread gets my vote for least favorite Chronicles thread I've actually participated in.

Skyweir wrote:I think SRD isnt real good at writing a bad book .. and I thought TWL had a story but one that needed much explaining .. It was an intense contrast to that we had all become accustomed to in the first series .. SRD created a strong connection between the Land and the reader in the first series but then all is dashed .. SRD "took something we loved then gave it back to us broken" .. just like he explained about his getting Joan 'back'.

Like many of you .. I hated what I read .. what had become of the Land I loved .. and this loathing was not released not even at the end of WGW .. I wanted to be taken through the healed Land and see for myself the evil had been purged! But alas it was not to be .. we know the LA entrusted with the ring and the staff healed the Land and I just wish I could have seen it for myself.

Worst book?? I dont think there was one .. Least favourite book .. has to be TWL .. for all the reasons previously stated and concurred with ..

I didnt really like the ending of TWL actually .. I didnt like to be left hanging like that .. but in Mordants Need in aMoHD he does that to the reader there too! .. oh well .. oh what it is to be at the mercy of such an author??? Clever .. indeed .. cos I couldnt wait to get my hands on tOT .. so I read WGW first!!!!

I know!! .. the cardinal sin of a reader!!!

Ditto... besides reading WGW first