Kevin's Watch

I started off indifferent to the Beatles, but have been converted into a Beatles Hater by all the people who tell me I have to like them. Rantin that I'm wrong isn't going to change my mind. In fact, trying to change my mind isn't going to change my mind.

The Dreaming wrote: Come Together?! How can you dislike Come Together?!)

I have always disliked Come Together, but that might be because Aerosmith introduced me to that song, thanks to a cheesy little 70's movie with Beatles music.

I get not liking Beatles music and thinking they are overrated. Part of it is that they had a big hand in forming what we now know as pop music, and historical perspective means more to some than others. I find a lot of classical music boring, and don't get how revolutionary some of the composers are with what they have done. But then again, I'm an ignoramus.

I genuinely like the Beatles, and to some degree was one of the first bands that I embraced that my sisters didn't introduce me to. But I don't really own an album of theirs, and am in no hurry to do so. I think they are fantastic, and I know many of their songs, and I think they do string together nice tunes, and have an amazing catalog, but I'd just prefer enjoying them on the radio and such. However, I do really want to get the Rock Band game. Does that seem a little backwards?

CovenantJr wrote:I started off indifferent to the Beatles, but have been converted into a Beatles Hater by all the people who tell me I have to like them. Rantin that I'm wrong isn't going to change my mind. In fact, trying to change my mind isn't going to change my mind.

I'm like that sometimes.
It's difficult to really be into a band, when EVERYONE and their dog goes on about how great they are.

Cagliostro wrote:I find a lot of classical music boring, and don't get how revolutionary some of the composers are with what they have done.

The "revolutionary" aspect of this or that composition is just extraneous talk around the music itself, imo. I'm sure this is partly where the "stuffy" reputation of classical music comes from. It has nothing to do with the emotional value of the music itself, when you listen to it. Either a piece of music moves you or it doesn't. If it genuinely bores you, move on. I do all the time. I love classical music in general, but I hear it and judge it on my terms. There are composers whose bland, mediocre crap drive me up the wall, regardless of how musical scholars try to wrap it up in flowery prose. You've got ears and you're an intelligent listener, Cag...that's all you need. And if classical music ultimately isn't your thing, don't sweat it.

About Bob Dylan, Lorelei wrote:One thing that we cannot forget is the way he changed the face of folk music when he plugged in at the Newport Folk Festival in 1965.

That is a great point. Even though Dylan's music doesn't personally connect with me, I thank him for "going electric" back then. That must've been a brave thing to do - I don't know how violent folkies are but any large group of pissed off people would make me nervous. I'm grateful to Dylan, because now folk music embraces many "electrified" sounds - at least at the festival I go to every summer. And it's better for it. If I had to spend my time listening to nothing but people strumming on acoustic guitars for four days straight...sorry, I wouldn't be a repeat customer.

Syl wrote:The black album (I still hate calling it that) marks the beginning of the end. A lot of people were a little skeptical about Justice, but when they actually had a love ballad with orchestral instruments (and there were even some people who thought Don't Tread on Me was selling out after the anti-war message of One)... Plus, Enter Sandman really put Metallica into the mainstream, and if there's one thing a dedicated group of outsiders can't stand... It's the same reason most metal heads can't stand nu metal. Well, other than the fact that nu metal sucks. Every genre has its poseurs, but when the same poseurs make it big or previously respected bands turn into poseurs...

Then again, there were a lot of people pissed off that they cut their hair. How f'n lame is that? Sure, you can say it's a sign of them going mainstream, but if that was your major clue and it's the biggest thing you have to complain about, you're what's wrong with heavy metal. I'd sell out, too, to get away from fans like that. *shrug*

Heh. Like I said, I like all but their last album (even that would be tolerable if I didn't know what band I was listening to. should've known when I heard reviewers saying "it's their heaviest album since Puppets."), and there's a very obvious progression even from Kill 'em All to Ride the Lightning. And yeah, that's the same album that got me started on Metallica. It's a great midway point in their career.

Sorry I didn't reply to this post of yours from way back, Syl. At the time, it probably left me too flabbergasted to know how to respond. But now, after having listened a lot to their newest, Death Magnetic, I have to say...it's their heaviest album since Puppets! Actually, whichever past album you compare Death Magnetic to, it more than holds its own. If people want to insist on claiming the band is no good anymore, that's their problem. What matters to me is that I'm enjoying this magnificent album. And if such strong music-making is called "selling out," then I say, by all means, more bands should do just that.

Very good point about the hair thing. Yes, image tends to be bound up with the music, but it's pathetic (and dangerous) how some fans want to hermetically seal off their favorite artists from change and growth. (Hmmm...like how Bob Dylan's folk audience went against him because he soiled their image of him as the pure folk artist when he picked up an electric guitar.)

matrixman wrote:It has nothing to do with the emotional value of the music itself, when you listen to it. Either a piece of music moves you or it doesn't. If it genuinely bores you, move on.

Exactly. I wouldn't deny the Beatles' legacy (though it's harder for me to comprehend it, having not been there) but, influential or not, I just don't enjoy listening to them. Their music does nothing for me.

Yes, sometimes our reverence for - and self-identification with - favorite artists can get the better of us. We shouldn't take it personally if someone doesn't like our favorites, but it's easier said than done, music being such an intensely personal, subjective experience.

Please understand I was being more than a little tongue in cheek. But there are a LOT of people out there who hold contrarian opinions just for the sake of being contrary. (Try anyone that believes in a conspiracy theory) It makes people feel smart, like they have special knowledge that no one else has access too, when really they just believe something that defies common sense and reason. A lot of people who vocally dislike the Beatles fall into that category. (Ever met someone who hates Star Wars?) There is some art that qualifies as "universal cultural experience." Whatever your opinion about Hamlet, I'm sure there is quite a bit you could tell me about it. It's widely considered one of the greatest plays of all time, and if you are going to tell me it sucks, you had better have a decent reason for it. ("I hate Star Wars - I just don't like space movies!")

Under rated - Golden Earring

Hmmm.... I'm going to try something different... I'm going to take a couple of my favorite bands and name an album that I think is over-rated and some that I think are under-rated.

For Iron Maiden: Killers. I have never liked this album, I've tried to give it so many chances. It, like the Blaze Bayley albums, is Iron Maiden for people who don't like Iron Maiden. Period. "But Orlion, it's so punk..." Punk sucks! (IMO, of course! )

For Pink Floyd: The Wall. Yep, it's over-rated as an album. Has some excellent songs, but is a fall from DSotM, WYWH, and Animals. I like it, don't misunderstand me, but if I were to rank Pink Floyd albums, The Wall wouldn't be in the top five, but it'd still be better then, say, More, Umagumma, and I suppose Final Cut. It's about in the same running as MLoR and Divison Bell.

The Under-rated albums:
For Iron Maiden, Brave New World, Dance of Death, and A Matter of Life and Death. They're just epic and aren't given the chance they deserve. Sure, classic Maiden (Number of the Beast-Fear of the Dark, excluding No Prayer for the Dying) is awesome, but that's not all!

For Pink Floyd: Atom Heart Mother. Possibly my favorite Pink Floyd album, but often lost between the Syd Barret era and DSotM.

Off the top of my head this second:
Under-rated: Kate Bush [had a couple "hits," and a consistent following, but deserved more]

Over-rated...maybe a 3 way tie? Eric Clapton, Rolling Stones, Madonna.

Reaching back a couple posts: For a long time I thought I hated "Star Wars."
Eventually I realized it was all the chatter and fanatics I hated, the movies themselves just bored me.

Vraith wrote:Off the top of my head this second:
Under-rated: Kate Bush [had a couple "hits," and a consistent following, but deserved more]

It's funny how perspective gives you different thoughts. When I first started getting into her, almost nobody knew who she was around me in America. I felt she was terribly underrated.
Then as I got into high school, suddenly some of the nerdier types I was hanging around knew her mainly because of the video for Babooska where she is dressed up as some Dungeons and Dragons lad's wet dream, and then discovered her music. I still thought she was underrated, and was still finishing up collecting her music.
Then Hounds of Love came out and she was totally underrated again.
Then I got into the music scene with the people with the unnatural hair colors. I had everything she had put out by this point. One of the most obnoxious of the unnatural hair color ladies (who was a friend of my girlfriend at the time) truly embraced her once I copied off all of Kate's work. This girl was so obnoxious about her (and forgot that I was the one who introduced her to Kate) that it kinda sickened me on Kate for a while. At this point, I was thinking Kate was totally overrated.
Then the Whole Story came out, and I continued my feelings.
Then in college, The Sensual World came out. I liked some of it, was knocked over sideways by This Woman's Work, but the rest was just okay. She was still overrated, but had put out some good stuff again.
Then The Red Shoes came out, and I have always hated Rubberband Girl. Now terribly overrated again.
Somewhere late college or after, I really sat down and listened to Sensual World and The Red Shoes and some of the back albums again. There were things in the Red Shoes that I had missed because I did not have the knowledge that I gained until after college. There were a few songs on that album that really impressed me at this point. And then listening to music while going to the chat rooms on AOL made Sensual World one of my favorite of her albums for a while. I discovered so many rich songs that were ruined by one person in particular.
Then Aerial came out. Was not fond of King of the Mountain, but the rest really takes her in a new direction, especially disk 2. So, back to underrated again.
Then I meet my wife-to-be and Kate Bush is one of the few musical artists/bands that we have in common. After discussing with her what is so great about Kate, I am now at the opinion that she is horribly underrated again.

I won't even bother with over-rated, far to many of them!

One of the most under-rated bands, especially in the US I think for me has to be Wishbone Ash. Won't try putting it into words, you're as well checking them out - totally chilled folky 70s rock

Valediction
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PzYuPfwYsj4

Lullaby
www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nEIDvb6kXs

Leaf and Stream
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qlNApKih3Q

The King Will Come
www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tna0Mmu1XlI

plus hundreds more great songs worth checking out

Yeah have to agree, I still consider Argus to be one of my top 5 albums. I was lucky enough to see them just before their demise.

Beatles? Musical Giants by any standard and any time period, their legacy is probably one of the most important collections of anything. However as a band I thought they were very pedestrian. Strangely enough I think the very opposite about the Rolling Stones.

Overrated: Metallica

Vader wrote:Metallica died back in 1986 in a bus accident in Sweden. MoP was the last good album and the band was never the same again after that.

Also overrated: emo and most of that pathetic "crossover/metalcore" music. While the beginnings in the 80s still were acceptable and a few really good bands emerged from that, the real disease started in the 90s with bands like Biohazard and continues with ridicolous wanna-be tough guys like Hatebreed or Blood for Blood.

Underrated: The Blue Chieftains.

I have only read the first page on this. I love the Beatles, but I agree they are quite over-rated. Paul is the most under rated of the Beatles. I think his solo career has a lot of songs that are hardly ever heard which easily stand out as just as good as any Beatles recording.
Under rated... John Cale. He was a fonding member of one of the first punk bands ever, produced the first album made by the most brilliant punk rocker, has created a vast volume of musically brilliant work, but is overshadowed by Lou Reed.
Under rated... Peter Cris. I consider Peter Cris and Bill Ward to be the two best living drummers. Peter Cris does a lot more than play drums though. He sings and is an excellent songwriter. He is very outspoken about the way Paul Stanley and Gene Simmons have stolen his "catman" persona and exploited the imagery he created.
Under rated... Yoko Ono. I think one of the great tragedies of our times is that she is forever, inexorably, linked with the Beatles. She is an outstanding artist in her own rite and deserves far more credit than she is given as an artist.
Under rated... Robin Gibb. His voice is unearthly, full of emotion, and haunting. Yet it is Barry Gibb whose voice is most easily identified with the Bee Gees. His songwriting was dark and moody, predating the entire Goth genre by decades. Mostly what he is remembered for is his snaggly teeth, emaciated build and bad haircuts.

heh...I agree with almost your entire under-rated list [I don't think Peter's a great song-writer, but Kiss is one of my original big-5 in discovering music, and the band lost the rhythm when they lost him, and Yoko is homerun or whiff for me].

No Use For A Name wrote:Gene and Paul I hate you most of all
Ace your the ace and Peter your the cat

At 0:26

www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyHqkIDfdnM

Throwing Muses / Kristin Hersh most under-rated.

a large volume of quality work with the Muses, solo and 50 ft Wave. can rock out, do the solo acoustic thing. too many great songs to give justice. and a very nice person when you meet her. also and author. ]

Throwing Muses - Soul Soldier
www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1R8i38B7OU

Throwing Muses - Hook in her head
www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFHadsP0GFY

Kristin Hersh - Spain
www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMTE_JbEotM

Kristin Hersh - Your Ghost
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VA8uaumikU&feature=related

50 Foot Wave - Hot Pink, Distorted (live)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLl8A46A6fQ

50 Foot Wave - Dog Days (live)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n68yydreQ4&feature=related

Over: AC/DC (seriously this thread's been going for four years and no-one thought to mention the most popular one-note band in history?), any hip hop artist who actually makes money

Under: Primus (especially Les Claypool), Faith No More, the Mars Volta, many hip hop artists who don't make money

I think hip-hop has become one of the most under-rated genres. Seriously. And it's as a direct result of the stuff saturating the charts, which is so god awful that anyone who likes decent music hears "hip hop" and runs a mile. There is genuinely good hip hop out there if you know where to look. It's just hidden better than most good music.

Saw the old comments on Tool. The general rule is that they are overrated if you ask many of the fans, and underrated by almost everyone else. There's a very few people who love Tool but realise that there is, have been, and will be other people who make music, and some of it is actually worth listening to.

^ So much truth in this post.

I'll have to say ACDC are rated pretty much as they are though...as a one note rock band. Sure they fill concert halls, but noones foolin themselves that there's pretty much 5 ACDC songs, and they repeat them on each album.

Underrated - The Hellacopters.