Obama's New HC Plan

[SerScot]

Prebe,

Fundementally, employer provided health insurance is at the root of the price spiral in health care.
Amen

Thanks man.

[Prebe]

You are welcome
And it is the root of gross inequality as well, as I said above. And the government here (teetering hopefully to fall on thursday) has introduced this wonderfull principle in our HC system in their time. It is already shunting skilled generalists with great diagnostic capabilities from public hospitals to highly specialized and highly effective abatoirs.

Private hospitals? Fine. I'd never even think of outlawing them. Private health insurance? Not sure, but as long as you pay it out of your own pocket I guess I don't have a cause, unless I'm explicitly agains the insurance concept. I'm still undecided on that.

But employer paid?? I don't even know where to begin on how utterly wrong I think that is.

[Zarathustra]

Z, I know you and your wife are deep in health insurance industry. What do you think about Chapter 8 in this book? The idea is that currently, professionals are protected in the US, for instance the medical profession. If we opened up the market (made it free), then we'd all benefit from lower costs.

I can't comment on the chapter, but I do think free market solutions will make health care cheaper. I've devoted an entire thread to it.

As I've pointed out several times over the years, the only two areas of health care which are getting simultaneously cheaper and better are lasik surgery and plastic surgery ... two areas which aren't covered by health insurance, and therefore directed tied to supply and demand.

There are many ways to harness the irreplaceable power of Adam Smith's invisible hand and yet still not let people slip through the cracks between his invisible fingers. Vouchers for HSAs could be given to poor people at a fraction of the cost of universal health care. But there are many other examples in my old thread.

[Avatar]

Price fixing in the insurance industry...

Sorry, should have been clearer. I wasn't limiting my comment to the insurance industry. Maybe there isn't price fixing in it. Maybe. But wherever it does happen, it creates indifference, because the people doing it know you don't have a realistic (or honest) choice. And if you go to a "competitor" so what, someone will go from them to you too.

--A

[Cail]

Senate votes to keep Canadian prescription drugs out of US

The Senate on Thursday defeated an amendment that would have made it easier for individuals to get prescription drugs from Canada for personal use.

"This amendment would allow the importation of small personal-use quantities of safe FDA-approved prescription drugs from Canada alone," argued Sen. David Vitter (R-La.), the amendment's author. "It is a very modest amendment."

The measure would have prohibited the Food and Drug administration from blocking such imports.

But floor manager for the underlying appropriations legislation, Sen. Barbara Milkuski (D-Md.), said opening the borders to Canadian-made drugs could endanger American consumers.

"You don’t know that what you are taking has been made in Canada or approved from Canada or that that it comes from a real website or from a legitimate pharmacy," she argued Thursday. "We could be importing death. I am not trying to being dramatic."

The amendment, which went down 45-55, needed 60 votes to proceed.

Here's the breakdown:

Akaka (D-HI), Nay
Alexander (R-TN), Nay
Ayotte (R-NH), Nay
Barrasso (R-WY), Nay
Baucus (D-MT), Nay
Begich (D-AK), Yea
Bennet (D-CO), Nay
Bingaman (D-NM), Yea
Blumenthal (D-CT), Yea
Blunt (R-MO), Nay
Boozman (R-AR), Yea
Boxer (D-CA), Yea
Brown (D-OH), Yea
Brown (R-MA), Nay
Burr (R-NC), Nay
Cantwell (D-WA), Nay
Cardin (D-MD), Yea
Carper (D-DE), Nay
Casey (D-PA), Yea
Chambliss (R-GA), Nay
Coats (R-IN), Nay
Coburn (R-OK), Yea
Cochran (R-MS), Nay
Collins (R-ME), Yea
Conrad (D-ND), Yea
Coons (D-DE), Nay
Corker (R-TN), Yea
Cornyn (R-TX), Nay
Crapo (R-ID), Nay
DeMint (R-SC), Yea
Durbin (D-IL), Nay
Enzi (R-WY), Nay
Feinstein (D-CA), Yea
Franken (D-MN), Yea
Gillibrand (D-NY), Nay
Graham (R-SC), Nay
Grassley (R-IA), Yea
Hagan (D-NC), Nay
Harkin (D-IA), Nay
Hatch (R-UT), Nay
Heller (R-NV), Yea
Hoeven (R-ND), Nay
Hutchison (R-TX), Nay
Inhofe (R-OK), Nay
Inouye (D-HI), Nay
Isakson (R-GA), Nay
Johanns (R-NE), Nay
Johnson (D-SD), Yea
Johnson (R-WI), Nay
Kerry (D-MA), Nay
Kirk (R-IL), Nay
Klobuchar (D-MN), Yea
Kohl (D-WI), Yea
Kyl (R-AZ), Nay
Landrieu (D-LA), Nay
Lautenberg (D-NJ), Nay
Leahy (D-VT), Yea
Lee (R-UT), Yea
Levin (D-MI), Yea
Lieberman (ID-CT), Nay
Lugar (R-IN), Nay
Manchin (D-WV), Nay
McCain (R-AZ), Yea
McCaskill (D-MO), Yea
McConnell (R-KY), Nay
Menendez (D-NJ), Nay
Merkley (D-OR), Yea
Mikulski (D-MD), Nay
Moran (R-KS), Nay
Murkowski (R-AK), Yea
Murray (D-WA), Nay
Nelson (D-FL), Yea
Nelson (D-NE), Yea
Paul (R-KY), Yea
Portman (R-OH), Nay
Pryor (D-AR), Yea
Reed (D-RI), Yea
Reid (D-NV), Nay
Risch (R-ID), Nay
Roberts (R-KS), Nay
Rockefeller (D-WV), Yea
Rubio (R-FL), Nay
Sanders (I-VT), Yea
Schumer (D-NY), Nay
Sessions (R-AL), Yea
Shaheen (D-NH), Yea
Shelby (R-AL), Yea
Snowe (R-ME), Yea
Stabenow (D-MI), Yea
Tester (D-MT), Yea
Thune (R-SD), Yea
Toomey (R-PA), Nay
Udall (D-CO), Nay
Udall (D-NM), Yea
Vitter (R-LA), Yea
Warner (D-VA), Nay
Webb (D-VA), Nay
Whitehouse (D-RI), Yea
Wicker (R-MS), Nay
Wyden (D-OR), Yea

[Orlion]

"We could be importing death" says the overly emotional lady...

So, like we imported all that bad medicine from China? Wasn't there a couple scandals where baby formula used in hospitals were dangerous and contained chemicals meant to make the calcium concentration higher than it actually was? And you're worried about drugs from Canada?

Thanks for taking the time to list the votes, Cail.

[Zarathustra]

Woo hoo Rand Paul. Boo Mitch McConnel. Can't those two compare notes and get together?!? There was only one Paul listed. I wonder how Ron came down on it?

Ki chimes in: our vaccines are made in Germany.

[Vraith]

"We could be importing death" says the overly emotional lady...

So, like we imported all that bad medicine from China? Wasn't there a couple scandals where baby formula used in hospitals were dangerous and contained chemicals meant to make the calcium concentration higher than it actually was? And you're worried about drugs from Canada?

Thanks for taking the time to list the votes, Cail.

Yea, the only reason is really to protect drug makers profits.
But it also isn't quite that simple,
[the big drug companies have lots of employees, and U.S. based ones invent almost 40% of new drugs worldwide...one of the few "industries" where we still lead].
or responsible for health care cost insanity in a large way. For instance, while name-brand drugs are more expensive in the U.S. most generic drugs are cheaper in the U.S. than Canada...and generics are now somewhere in the vicinity of 80% of the prescription drug market.

[Hashi Lebwohl]

There was only one Paul listed. I wonder how Ron came down on it?

This was a Senate vote; Dr. Paul is in the House. I don't know how he would have voted on it, though.

[Zarathustra]

Woops, that's right.

[Farsailer]

As someone who lives in the People's Republic of Southern California, I know several guys who make border runs to Tijuana to get prescription meds for a lot cheaper. The savings are apparently sufficient to make it worth blowing the gas and lunch money getting there. Of course they are asked at the border crossing what they bought, but it's very rare that anybody gets discovered. At least none of my friends have been stopped.

[Cybrweez]

I don't get it. The sponsor said FDA approved drugs. Are they FDA approved or not? If so, how does one make the unsafe claim? Am I missing something?

EDIT: also, as mentioned, prescription drugs are from other countries now, so what was this bill really about?

[Hashi Lebwohl]

It's about the FDA keeping its monopoly on authorized prescription drugs in this country. Just for laughs, look into the connections between the FDA and Big Pharma one of these days. It is fascinating how many FDA approvers have been employed by Big Pharma or how many physician consultants are also on advisory boards of Big Pharma.

[Avatar]

It's about the FDA keeping its monopoly on authorized prescription drugs in this country.

Sounds about right to me...

--A

[Prebe]

I don't get it. The sponsor said FDA approved drugs. Are they FDA approved or not? If so, how does one make the unsafe claim? Am I missing something?

I'm guessing that FDA approved means that - e.g. Viagra and Prozac - are FDA approved from a particular manufacturer, and that the active compounds have been approved. I don't think the approval covers any copies of the products (and they shouldn't). Copies that for all FDA knows, could contain anything including (or excluding) varying amounts of the active compund. Regardless of their country of origin.

BUT I'm certainly open to any hint of conspiracy between Big Pharma and a government agency.

[Avatar]

I came to the same conclusion about how it could be FDA approved but coming in from another country.

--A