The Gradual Interview
Moderator: Seareach
It's when Donaldson starts pandering to the whims of fans that his work will really begin to suffer. Why should Donaldson respect what we have to say? What credentials do we have as fans? Besides I'm sure he gets plenty of constructive criticism from people who are a little more specific than (your storytelling is now)"less effective" and "reigned in". Personally i think it's an insult to advance such a vague and bland critique to an author of Donaldson's experience and proficiency. Preston will find far more accomplished appraisals of his work on this forum.
Meh, I'm not expecting him to pander to anyone. Our credentials as fans? Ummmm, we pay his salary by buying his books.
Quite frankly I think (or thought, at least) SRD's response was beneath him. Apparently I was wrong.
Quite frankly I think (or thought, at least) SRD's response was beneath him. Apparently I was wrong.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
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"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
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"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
I thought Preston's critique was beneath Donaldson.Cail wrote: Quite frankly I think (or thought, at least) SRD's response was beneath him. Apparently I was wrong.
But your right. As fans we should have some say. But I just think if your gonna approach Donaldson with criticisms of his work you sure as hell better be veeeery specific and concise. Preston is a dud.
Well, I'd just say that he is "human". I think that even constructive criticism (while being helpful) "hurts" in one way or another. We all seek approval. We all want people to say "that's brilliant" and that's not always the case. But, if you care for someone (or respect someone) you do it in a way that shows that you care/respect that person.
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A Gunslinger
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Agreed.Marvin wrote:I thought Preston's critique was beneath Donaldson.Cail wrote: Quite frankly I think (or thought, at least) SRD's response was beneath him. Apparently I was wrong.
But your right. As fans we should have some say. But I just think if your gonna approach Donaldson with criticisms of his work you sure as hell better be veeeery specific and concise. Preston is a dud.
"I use my gun whenever kindness fails"
Yes: if you're going to say something like that, in my personal opinion you should spend quite a few page explaining yourself!Marvin wrote:I thought Preston's critique was beneath Donaldson.Cail wrote: Quite frankly I think (or thought, at least) SRD's response was beneath him. Apparently I was wrong.
But your right. As fans we should have some say. But I just think if your gonna approach Donaldson with criticisms of his work you sure as hell better be veeeery specific and concise. Preston is a dud.
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kevinswatch
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Linden should pass utterly.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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kevinswatch
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kevinswatch
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But then they couldn't really be called whims. More like...ummmm...convictions. SRD can pander to my conviction not to pander to the whims of fans.kevinswatch wrote:I think SRD should [edit: shall] pander to each whim on a whim-by-whim basis, with each proposed whim to be pandered to be given a popular vote, where the most popular whims get pandered first.-jay
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wayfriend
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Let me put it to one and all:
Donaldson didn't have an issue with Preston writing a criticism of his book. Lots of people have. If anything, Donaldson understands what critics are for, as he relates in other GI questions. And he has a very specific idea about what critics can do *for him*.
What he had an issue with was Preston sending a criticism to him in the GI. Which, you have to admit, requires a certain "I think you really need to know my opinion to be better off" attitude.
This is why he says "Criticism isn't what the GI is *for*."
And "Criticism here serves no useful purpose." (emphasis mine).
And "*Uninvited* criticism exists solely to feed the ego of the critic." This is especially true here: Preston was feeding his urge to tell Donaldson something that he thought Donaldson should know. That is 'ego'. That's why Donaldson points it out as exemplary even.
I put it to anyone who's ever submitted a question to the GI: there's a real temptation to not only ask a question, but also to tell SRD something. Usually it's something like "I want you to know how much I enjoyed ...". Sometimes it's more urgent. But it is easy to feel a desire to reach out and communicate.
I think Preston just took it too far. He used the GI to unload his "wisdom" on Donaldson. It is the wrong vehicle. The wrong target. And the wrong reason.
Donaldson didn't have an issue with Preston writing a criticism of his book. Lots of people have. If anything, Donaldson understands what critics are for, as he relates in other GI questions. And he has a very specific idea about what critics can do *for him*.
What he had an issue with was Preston sending a criticism to him in the GI. Which, you have to admit, requires a certain "I think you really need to know my opinion to be better off" attitude.
This is why he says "Criticism isn't what the GI is *for*."
And "Criticism here serves no useful purpose." (emphasis mine).
And "*Uninvited* criticism exists solely to feed the ego of the critic." This is especially true here: Preston was feeding his urge to tell Donaldson something that he thought Donaldson should know. That is 'ego'. That's why Donaldson points it out as exemplary even.
I put it to anyone who's ever submitted a question to the GI: there's a real temptation to not only ask a question, but also to tell SRD something. Usually it's something like "I want you to know how much I enjoyed ...". Sometimes it's more urgent. But it is easy to feel a desire to reach out and communicate.
I think Preston just took it too far. He used the GI to unload his "wisdom" on Donaldson. It is the wrong vehicle. The wrong target. And the wrong reason.
.
All that may be true, but SRD chose to post Preston's critique in the GI, so apparently that's exactly what it's for. If SRD doesn't want critique in the GI then he shouldn't post it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
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wayfriend
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He didn't post it to post a nice critique. He posted it to provide "an apt demonstration of my point" that "*Uninvited* criticism exists solely to feed the ego of the critic".
You have to admit: it will certainly discourage further uses of the GI in this way... could be what he is trying to achieve.
You have to admit: it will certainly discourage further uses of the GI in this way... could be what he is trying to achieve.
.
I get that, but to say, "The GI isn't for critique", then to post critique.....I dunno, I think that was a dick move. Had SRD simply hit the "delete" key he would've been that much more effective.
It's obvious SRD doesn't give two craps about what his fans think of him (unless they're stroking him), but he lost a ton of my respect by posting that.
It's obvious SRD doesn't give two craps about what his fans think of him (unless they're stroking him), but he lost a ton of my respect by posting that.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
nah, I understand Mr. D's point.
Uninvited critisism doesn't really serve any purpose for the author. It helps promote discussion and understanding for those who wish to partake of it. But for the 'artist', it is only annoying if unrequested, as he/she does not wish others to try and derail/misunderstand his or her intentions ans creative impulses.
If you don't agree with the author/film maker/painter, then just don't support his work. Telling him that you thought it sucked serves no purpose for the artist. Such an artistic person will usually ask opinions of those whome he respects or knows have insight that can help his own ideas and perspectives and goals ...
(OK, I rambled, but I totally agree with SRD's point, regardless of how he may come across in the GI.)
Uninvited critisism doesn't really serve any purpose for the author. It helps promote discussion and understanding for those who wish to partake of it. But for the 'artist', it is only annoying if unrequested, as he/she does not wish others to try and derail/misunderstand his or her intentions ans creative impulses.
If you don't agree with the author/film maker/painter, then just don't support his work. Telling him that you thought it sucked serves no purpose for the artist. Such an artistic person will usually ask opinions of those whome he respects or knows have insight that can help his own ideas and perspectives and goals ...
(OK, I rambled, but I totally agree with SRD's point, regardless of how he may come across in the GI.)
~...with a floating smile and a light blue sponge...~
me too. and what wayfriend has said i agree with as well.Usivius wrote:nah, I understand Mr. D's point.
Uninvited critisism doesn't really serve any purpose for the author. It helps promote discussion and understanding for those who wish to partake of it. But for the 'artist', it is only annoying if unrequested, as he/she does not wish others to try and derail/misunderstand his or her intentions ans creative impulses.
If you don't agree with the author/film maker/painter, then just don't support his work. Telling him that you thought it sucked serves no purpose for the artist. Such an artistic person will usually ask opinions of those whome he respects or knows have insight that can help his own ideas and perspectives and goals ...
(OK, I rambled, but I totally agree with SRD's point, regardless of how he may come across in the GI.)
SRD made an example of Preston, Cail. that's why he posted it. and it IS and exemplary example. and who knows how many of those he gets as he says he doesn't post them, but i'd imagine he gets a LOT of it. there's a lot of know-it-all's out there who'd just LOVE a chance to tell an actual published author how they screwed up.
i liked SRD's response. i thought he was right on.
you're more advanced than a cockroach,
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~
have you ever tried explaining yourself
to one of them?
~ alan bates, the mothman prophecies
i've had this with actors before, on the set,
where they get upset about the [size of my]
trailer, and i'm always like...take my trailer,
cause... i'm from Kentucky
and that's not what we brag about.
~ george clooney, inside the actor's studio
a straight edge for legends at
the fold - searching for our
lost cities of gold. burnt tar,
gravel pits. sixteen gears switch.
Haphazard Lucy strolls by.
~ dennis r wood ~