The Latest Potentially-Explosive Racially-Charged Murder

Archive From The 'Tank
Locked
User avatar
Rawedge Rim
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 5248
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Rawedge Rim »

Zarathustra wrote:
Rawedge Rim wrote:If I pull out a wiffle ball bat, is this sufficient provacation to warrant a 9mm slug to the center of mass? How about an ice cream stick?
If you are attacking a cop--even with your bare hands--and you will not submit even after he draws his weapon and aims it at you, yes, you deserve to get shot.
Rawedge Rim wrote:If two people dressed identically (different times) in similar areas, are stopped for suspicion of committing a crime, and both reach into their pocket and pull an object out; one is a young white man and one is a young black man; which do you think is more likely to find themselves in the morgue shortly thereafter?
Both are likely to be shot. This is exactly what happened here with the convenient store example you mention. The white guy had a gun in his pants, and he was reaching for it. That's why the cop lunged at him and why he got shot.
Does running away merit a bullet in the back, even though the original stop was tail light out, and the warrant is for shop lifting?
If you're referring to the event we discussed up-thread, he was not shot in the back, but in the side. He was not running away, but turning and lunging at the cops with a knife. The warrant wasn't for shop lifting, but aggravated assault.
Tamar Rice was a 12 year old playing with a toy gun in the park, and was dead 2 seconds after law enforcement arrival. In Atlanta, the police raided a home, got the wrong address, and on a no knock warrant, killed a 90 year old woman who pulled a gun to defend herself from people breaking into her home.

Remember this one:www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/ar ... 60077.html

An autistic man playing with a toy truck. No freaking body had a pair of binoculars to look at the object in the poor bastards hand. Especially with the companion screaming that the guy was autistic and not competent.
I agree that those examples show tragic lack of judgment and in the case of no knock warrants, a policy which should be ended.
this is a wiffle ball bat: Image



this is an ice cream stick: Image

Now if you brandish either object at me, and untrained citizen, and i respond with a 9mm round to the center of mass (or 9mm any where), I will be arrested and prosecuted (and rightly so) for excessive use of force.

But what you are saying is that any resistance, any perception of personal danger, a trained professional can in your judgement pull his service weapon and blast the other into thier next life, and that's perfectly OK with you?
“One accurate measurement is worth a
thousand expert opinions.”
- Adm. Grace Hopper

"Whenever you dream, you're holding the key, it opens the the door to let you be free" ..RJD
User avatar
Zarathustra
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19644
Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2005 12:23 am
Been thanked: 1 time

Post by Zarathustra »

RR, anything that can be used as a weapon, no matter how nonlethal it seems to you, can be used to put a cop off his guard just long enough for the attacker to grab his gun and kill him with his own weapon. Stab a cop in the eye with an ice cream stick. Hit him in the face with a wiffle ball bat. That's all it would take.

You don't attack a cop. Period. If you bring a wiffleball bat to a gun fight, you do not have the right to self-defense just because you didn't bring enough fire power. You have to understand that any fight you pick with an officer who is trying to arrest you *is* a gun fight. Resist arrest with violence and your life is forfeit.

This doesn't even address the possibility of a shank being carved out of the ice cream stick, or a plastic bat being filled with ball bearings, rocks, etc. It would be extremely easy to turn these into lethal weapons. A child could do it. I don't think a cop who is being attacked has to rule out these possibilities before defending himself.

As for whether you or I could get away with this, I think it would depend upon the context and lawyer. I understand that it seems unfair for cops to have a lower threshold of proof and justifiability, but perhaps this balances the fact that they put their lives on the line daily in order to enforce the law. Attacking a cop is a more serious matter than attacking you or me. In addition to the attack itself, which is illegal, attacking a cop in the line of his duty is also an impediment of the enforcement of law, which can be viewed as a larger threat to society as well.
Joe Biden … putting the Dem in dementia since (at least) 2020.
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Zarathustra wrote:RR, anything that can be used as a weapon, no matter how nonlethal it seems to you, can be used to put a cop off his guard just long enough for the attacker to grab his gun and kill him with his own weapon. Stab a cop in the eye with an ice cream stick. Hit him in the face with a wiffle ball bat. That's all it would take.
You can indeed kill a person with an ice cream stick, even one which is still somewhat damp from having been inside the frozen treat you were eating. Credit cards, those plastic spoons you can get at fast food places, and so on--all sorts of normally-innocuous, everyday objects can be used with violent, lethal intent.

Although I agree that police need to become better at deescalating situations, I concur with Z--resisting the police with any sort of violence is a one-way ticket to the morgue. Even if you truly are innocent you can protest your innocence at the police station with a lawyer present later but in the heat of the moment when you are being arrested you have only two rights: comply or be shot.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Rawedge Rim
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 5248
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:38 pm
Location: Florida

Post by Rawedge Rim »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Zarathustra wrote:RR, anything that can be used as a weapon, no matter how nonlethal it seems to you, can be used to put a cop off his guard just long enough for the attacker to grab his gun and kill him with his own weapon. Stab a cop in the eye with an ice cream stick. Hit him in the face with a wiffle ball bat. That's all it would take.
You can indeed kill a person with an ice cream stick, even one which is still somewhat damp from having been inside the frozen treat you were eating. Credit cards, those plastic spoons you can get at fast food places, and so on--all sorts of normally-innocuous, everyday objects can be used with violent, lethal intent.

Although I agree that police need to become better at deescalating situations, I concur with Z--resisting the police with any sort of violence is a one-way ticket to the morgue. Even if you truly are innocent you can protest your innocence at the police station with a lawyer present later but in the heat of the moment when you are being arrested you have only two rights: comply or be shot.
And that is where I'm coming from. Yes innocuous objects can and sometimes do become dangerous weapons. Key word is "sometimes". If I'm out to arrest some gang bangers from MS 13, yeah, now it's time to be concerned about imminent danger no matter how it looks on the surface. However if I'm serving an arrest warrant on some bad check writer and his 5 year old son takes it amiss and attacks the me with a wiffle ball bat, I don't see this as a situation so fraught with danger that the cop just has to react to the attack with lethal force.

I realize that thousands upon thousands of law enforcement go to work every day, and probably less than 1% ever pull thier service weapon out in the field their entire career, and even fewer actually fire it. But I have notice in several instances here and there that a small number of uniformed officers have done both on more than one occasion. And in those cases I have to wonder if this is just bad luck, lack of training, or is the a bit more hair trigger than others on the force.
“One accurate measurement is worth a
thousand expert opinions.”
- Adm. Grace Hopper

"Whenever you dream, you're holding the key, it opens the the door to let you be free" ..RJD
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

Little bit of all of them really. A while back I posted an article by a cop, talking about how the way that they are trained makes it more likely that they will shoot people unnecessarily.

Despite what Z and Hashi saying being correct, I don't think it makes it right. The cops should be held to at least a similar standard for the use of lethal force.

--A
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Rawedge Rim wrote:I realize that thousands upon thousands of law enforcement go to work every day, and probably less than 1% ever pull thier service weapon out in the field their entire career, and even fewer actually fire it. But I have notice in several instances here and there that a small number of uniformed officers have done both on more than one occasion. And in those cases I have to wonder if this is just bad luck, lack of training, or is the a bit more hair trigger than others on the force.
Every now and then someone earns a badge who probably should not be given one. For an example of this refer back to that case in Oklahoma where the guy had been a generous donor to the police and sheriff's office for years so they let him go on patrols and pretend to be a cop until he shot someone.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Avatar
Immanentizing The Eschaton
Posts: 61791
Joined: Mon Aug 02, 2004 9:17 am
Location: Johannesburg, South Africa
Has thanked: 15 times
Been thanked: 22 times

Post by Avatar »

Ha, you guys are lucky. At any given moment we have hundreds, if not thousands, of active duty cops under investigation for a variety of criminal and civil charges...

--A
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

7-year-old Jazmine Barnes, a young black girl, was killed in a drive-by shooting about a week ago. Initial reports stated that the shooter was a white man in his 30s, causing activists to demand that it be investigated as a hate crime.

Whoops. Police in Houston have arrested Eric Black Jr., a 20-year-old black man, in connection with the killing.

"Mistaken identity", indeed.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

No real story here .. if initial reports indicated the shooter was a white dude, that is an obvious direction for public minds to go.

As far as effective policing goes, facts are key. You follow the facts, not fears, best guesses, conspiracy theories or public opinion.
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

The activists wanted the shooter to be white so they could resurrect the Black Lives Matter movement and get their faces on the nightly news showing how outraged they are.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Guess they were disappointed then 😏
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

Black lives matter, until they're ended by black people
On December 30, seven-year-old Jazmine Barnes was killed in a brazen drive-by shooting in Houston while in her family car, driven by her mother. Barnes's teenage sister provided the sole description of the shooter to media and police: 'He was white and had blue eyes.' In interviews, the family expressed fears that they had been targeted because of their race. The response was immediate: national media, celebrities, politicians, and activists launched a crusade to find the racist white killer.


Within days, activist Shaun King and his attorney Lee Merritt used social media to raise $100,000 as reward money for information leading to an arrest. Houston Texans star wide receiver DeAndre Hopkins committed one of his paychecks to the Barnes family. Shaquille O'Neal pledged to pay for the funeral. A GoFundMe page raised over $82,000 -- far surpassing its initial goal of $6,500. On Twitter, celebrities and racial justice activists tweeted about the murder using the hashtag #JusticeforJazmine and #SayHerName.

The public outcry had an impact. Over the weekend, Harris County police announced a major breakthrough in the case: two men had been arrested -- one charged -- on suspicion of murder. Yet neither have blue eyes, nor white skin. Both are black. Whereas the family believed they were victims of a hate crime, suspect Eric Black Jr. admitted before investigators that mistaken identity was to blame. What's more, in the wake of this surprising turn of events, those who made the loudest cries for justice became conspicuously quiet. Others maintained their outrage by resorting to a conspiratorial tone, sometimes questioning the police's sequence of events.

It's clear why the narrative around Jazmine's murder should attract so much furor. The life of a black child being taken by a racist in a post-Charleston, post-Pittsburgh America should anger us. Yet it's less clear why this furor should suddenly desist upon the revelation that the suspected killer is not white, but black. Black lives do matter -- but the backlog of ignored tragedies in Houston similar to Jazmine's case suggests that attention given to black lives by some within the activist movement is more selective than it seems.

In February 2017, eight-year-old De'Maree Adkins was killed by bullets that struck her while she slept in the backseat of her mother's car. In June 2017, Messiah Marshall, a 10-month-old baby, died in his father's arms after being shot outside his family's apartment complex. The next month, 14-year-old O'Cyrus Breaux was shot and killed at his own birthday party. Within days, he was joined by 14-year-old Jaquan Neal. Then in January 2018, 16-year-old Stephen Verdell Jr. was shot and killed after leaving the Victory Prep Academy. In March, eight-year-old Tristian Hutchins became the victim of a drive by shooting while sitting in a car with his sister. She survived with a bullet injury in the leg, but Tristian died after a month-long battle at Memorial Hermann Hospital.

Though all similar to Jasmine's case and in proximity to one another, these murders garnered a different response -- if there was a response at all. National media didn't provide blanket coverage. They were never mentioned by Mr King. Their names didn't trend on Twitter. Activists didn't crowdsource investigations. And their families didn't receive any donations from celebrities. Why don't these black children matter to 'racial justice' activists? Because without exception, their killers are also known or believed to be black.

Racial violence is a fact American society contends with, and over recent decades the media has made strides in responsibly reporting on cases involving historically marginalized groups. Yet, in today's share-first-read-later world of social media, this interest toward racial issues has produced a perverse incentive. It is race, not our common humanity, that now plays a central role in galvanizing outrage over tragedies. Thus with black suspects in custody and the 'white-on-black crime' aspect gone, there's nothing left to care about -- leaving public interest to quickly evaporate.

It is bad enough that those with influence only stood by Jazmine as long as the racial narrative seemed true. It is worse still that this failure is perpetuated repeatedly throughout an informational ecosystem that exploits our issue-centric concerns and short attention spans. The easiness -- and profitability -- of manipulating our fears over racist violence has serious consequences for social tensions, particularly in a nation so bitterly divided as America in 2019.

This has been manifestly true for Jazmine's case, where discussions of the murder frequently carried a tone of racially charged aggravation. A Salon column by University of Baltimore Professor D. Watkins called for 'white America' to accept responsibility for the 'terrorist murder' that took Jazmine's life. Representative Sheila Jackson Lee (D., Texas) urged the public to treat the killing as a 'hate crime' before any motive was established. Meanwhile, relatives of a white man misidentified by Mr King as a possible suspect were left in fear for their lives after being threatened on Facebook: 'Someone is going to rape, torture, and murder the women and children in your family.' Although racialized reporting may be good for clicks, it has dangerous consequences for those caught by the backlash.

There is a balance to be struck between standing forthrightly by victims of racism, and proceeding cautiously when coverage can have serious social implications. It's not just the facts that are at stake, but our social fabric too.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Gaius Octavius
American Royalist and Admirer of All Things British
Posts: 3341
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 8:32 pm

Post by Gaius Octavius »

People were at first assuming it was a white person who killed the little girl (white on black crime is rare)... then they revealed it was actually a black person who killed her. Black on black crime constitutes the majority of crimes against black people.
User avatar
SoulBiter
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 9309
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2004 2:02 am
Has thanked: 84 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Post by SoulBiter »

Nanothnir wrote:People were at first assuming it was a white person who killed the little girl (white on black crime is rare)... then they revealed it was actually a black person who killed her. Black on black crime constitutes the majority of crimes against black people.
That's because the 'witnesses' said it was a white male and gave a composite drawing of a white male.
eyewitnesses said the suspect who suddenly opened fire on her moms car was a bearded white man in his 40s, driving a red pickup truck.
We miss you Tracie but your Spirit will always shine brightly on the Watch Image
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

:LOLS:

Brilliant :biggrin: 👍
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Nanothnir wrote:Black on black crime constitutes the majority of crimes against black people.
FBI Crime statistics confirm this assertion. I have linked the FBI CJIS site so many times that I am not going to bother doing it again.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

That may be as it is Hashi .. but we are talking about the initial assumption of guilt which was proven wrong.

It was reported as being perpetrated by white persons .. which is why it proceeded as if it was. Till it was evidenced by the facts to be otherwise.
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
User avatar
Hashi Lebwohl
The Gap Into Spam
Posts: 19576
Joined: Mon Jul 06, 2009 7:38 pm

Post by Hashi Lebwohl »

Skyweir wrote:It was reported as being perpetrated by white persons .. which is why it proceeded as if it was. Till it was evidenced by the facts to be otherwise.
Sometimes eyewitnesses tell lies.
The Tank is gone and now so am I.
User avatar
Cail
Lord
Posts: 38981
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2004 1:36 am
Location: Hell of the Upside Down Sinners

Post by Cail »

You'd think that people would have learned that lesson after Fergusen.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." - PJ O'Rourke
_____________
"Men and women range themselves into three classes or orders of intelligence; you can tell the lowest class by their habit of always talking about persons; the next by the fact that their habit is always to converse about things; the highest by their preference for the discussion of ideas." - Charles Stewart
_____________
"I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison
_____________
User avatar
Skyweir
Lord of Light
Posts: 25467
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2002 6:27 am
Location: Australia
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Post by Skyweir »

Hashi Lebwohl wrote:
Skyweir wrote:It was reported as being perpetrated by white persons .. which is why it proceeded as if it was. Till it was evidenced by the facts to be otherwise.
Sometimes eyewitnesses tell lies.
No shit Sherlock :LOLS:

😂😘😂
ImageImageImageImage
keep smiling 😊 :D 😊

'Smoke me a kipper .. I'll be back for breakfast!'
Image

EZBoard SURVIVOR
Locked

Return to “Coercri”