Runes, Prologue, Ch. 5: The Cost of Love and Despair

[wayfriend]

Well, if you believe that part of Foul's plan is that Linden be dead in the real world, this would lead you to conclude that someone made sure she was shot.

Then again, I can imagine Sherriff Lytton saying "If something happens to me, whatever else happens, don't let the XXXXing XXXXX live."

[Avatar]

The first suggestion though presupposes at least one other agent of Foul in the real world though. Are the lines between the two being blurred? (I think somebody has mentioned that somewhere.)

I wonder if we'll be crossing to the real world again? We don't have a pattern to go on really: 1st Chrons, crossed back and forth. 2nd Chrons, all in the land.

We can assume that since Runes ended in the Land, FR too will take place there, or at least start there. I wonder if the rest of the last chrons will stay there though?

--A

[Relayer]

We can assume that since Runes ended in the Land, FR too will take place there, or at least start there. I wonder if the rest of the last chrons will stay there though?

--A

SRD says somewhere in the GI that the characters will stay in the Land (or at least the world of the Land).

[Avytaya]

Hello all--
Mailk, I understand where your coming from. Linden's "motherly instincts" seems a little contrived. Prehaps a more realistic picture would have been Linden coming home to a dark house and stepping on a Lego with barefeet "Jeremiah, pick up these *** %^&* LEGOS NOW!"
Maybe "He's threatening my son" is the "hellfire!" of Runes.
I'm sure this will all make more sense later.
Malik mentioned that this summoning was a lot more personal involving Roger and Jeremiah as opposed to the 1st Chrons where TC basically trips and falls into the land. I think this represents the blurring of two "realities".
Who is summoning Linden? Can we assume that Foul is summoning Roger & Jeremiah, is Linden just an accident?
If it wasn't for this discussion I would have never realized the connection of Roger & Jeremiah and how they know each other.
-Avy (no relation to Avatar)

[matrixman]

I remember liking this book. I remember appreciating how SRD's writing style has grown. I just think this is the worst "real world" intro of all three Chronicles. It's worth noting that a man walking into town to pay his phone bill was more riviting than all this murder and kidnapping--despite how hard Donaldson is trying.

I do agree that the opening pages of Lord Foul's Bane were very gripping. The writing there nicely represents SRD's early "virtuoso" style.

[dlbpharmd]

Personally, I loved the first 5 chapters of ROTE. I remember thinking:
What the hell is Roger up to?
What's wrong with Joan?
Jeremiah? And he builds stuff from the Land?!

It was the same way with TWL:
What the hell is Covenant up to?
What's wrong with Joan?
Linden who?

[Zarathustra]

I'm a little perplexed that he's just been "waiting around" for this day. What is so special about being 21? If it is not his legal inheritance kicking in--but instead a relationship with Foul or a Raver--then his age should have absolutely nothing to do with it.

Before moving on to the Land (I'm behind in my reading, I'll catch up soon), do we have an idea on this point? This has not been explained. Obviously, Foul has no problem using minors (Pietten, Jerimiah, J's siblings,), so what's up? If Roger was going to take Joan by force anyway, then he could have done it at any time.

[wayfriend]

Twenty-one had something to do with getting custody of Haven Farm. Which only begs the question - what did he need custody of Haven Farm for? You don't need to own it to walk into the woods and shoot people.

Wild speculation: this is related to the "spiritual connection" which is the difference between being given the ring and stealing the ring. Roger needs to have Haven Farm given to him for some reason. Which means that there may be something there. Maybe it's only a plane of rock - maybe this time the ritual requires the site of the summoning be his.

[Relayer]

I was thinking along the same lines:

TC's entire estate becomes Roger's on that day... specifically, the ring would have been freely given to him, if it hadn't already been "given" to Linden. It may not have much to do w/ Haven Farm itself; that might just be part of Roger's ruse, which sounded completely plausible to people like Lytton and Megan, who don't know the "real story." IIRC, Roger was genuinely surprised when he found out Linden had the ring. The plotline would probably be completely different if she didn't have it... no need to kidnap Jeremiah, etc.

Symbolically, Haven Farm is similar to the ring. The physical manifestation of their marriage (and the place where they conceived Roger)... which has now been destroyed. Will the rings be destroyed?

[wayfriend]

TC's entire estate becomes Roger's on that day... specifically, the ring would have been freely given to him, if it hadn't already been "given" to Linden.

So Roger was hoping for a ring on his birthday ... a birthday present, my precious.

Works for me.

Provided there's something to this whole giving/taking phenomenon.

But now we must ask... if Roger was planning to get the Ring, what was Foul planning ... Is Foul's plan messed up now, or was the Roger inheritance plan merely plan 6-B.

[Avatar]

Yeah, if the giving is important, (and we have reason to believe it is, (Kasryn) ), then he's automatically given it on receipt of the estate. Makes sense.

I'm still not happy that we know who actually did the summoning though, and it's usually an important point I think.

(Oh, and I have never liked the real world portions that much.)

--A

[CorruptionWearsManyFaces]

hmmmm....interesting thoughts on the givng/taking and Haven Farm and TC's ring. The 'I had to wait until I was 21' question is really an odd one. I'll propose another idea--He(Foul and/or Roger(raver or not)) had to wait for events in the Land to reach a certain point before making his move in the real world.

Can't believe I didn't find this site before. Still trying to catch up to you all in the readings

T

[Avatar]

That is an interesting idea. Perhaps it wasn't merely a matter of an aritrary (or not if we consider inheritance) age, but rather a bit of misdirection in a sense, not on Rogers part, but on that of the author. Maybe the age isn't important at all...it just happened to be his age when things were "ready."

Hmm...

--A

[ff7hero]

Well, this is my first post here, so please don't judge me too harshly...
I only have a few things to add. Firstly, Syl, you're dissection was excellent, and without my book at hand I can't be sure, but I think you missed one detail that I found important...

Roger...offers to trade Jeremiah for Linden cutting off her right hand.

Now, and again I don't have my book on me, I think that Roger's offer was for Linden to cut off the last two fingers of her hand, TC style.
Also, as far as the 21 thing went. Is it possible that since Roger inherited Thomas' estate, that he now owns the ring the Linden carries and that might account for:

Spoiler

Linden's difficulty accessing the Wild Magic later on...

[dlbpharmd]

Welcome to the Watch!

Just to clarify - Roger does indeed instruct Linden to cut off her right hand. As for ownership of the ring, IMHO Covenant gave the ring to Linden at the end of WGW, and so Roger would have no claim on it through his father's estate.

[I'm Murrin]

But perhaps she subconsciously doubts her claim to it?

[dlbpharmd]

But perhaps she subconsciously doubts her claim to it?

That's entirely possible, and makes sense. She certainly still thinks of the ring as Covenant's ring.

[ff7hero]

Welcome to the Watch!

Just to clarify - Roger does indeed instruct Linden to cut off her right hand.

Thanks for the welcome,
But, I'm afraid you're wrong, check your book...
In the US Paperback edition, on page 73:

"I see you brought your bag." He (Roger) nodded at the weight which anchored her against the compultion of the wind, "I'm sure you have a scalpel in there somewhere
"Get it out. Cut off two fingers of your right hand.

But yeah, the thing with Roger owning Linden's ring was a bit farfetched, oh well...

[dlbpharmd]

Thanks for the welcome,
But, I'm afraid you're wrong, check your book...
In the US Paperback edition, on page 73:

"I see you brought your bag." He (Roger) nodded at the weight which anchored her against the compultion of the wind, "I'm sure you have a scalpel in there somewhere
"Get it out. Cut off two fingers of your right hand.

But yeah, the thing with Roger owning Linden's ring was a bit farfetched, oh well...

This must be some of the changes/clarifications that SRD made between the hardback first edition and the paperback edition that you have. In the hardback first edition, same page:

"I see you brought your bag." He nodded at the weight which anchored her against the compulsion of the wind. "I'm sure you have a scalpel in there somewhere. Get it out. Cut off your right hand.

[ff7hero]

So, which one is official?