Kevin's Watch

Grateful, as always, that we have you around, Murrin. This stuff confuses the hell out of me.

And btw, I've been meaning to tell you that I like the quote in your sig. Curdle and Telorast are entertaining...until the last book....

Her soul-less body was in Chaos with Pannion for nearly 300,000 years, until TCG freed him? Leaving her body there, alone, until Quick and Talamandas brought it back?

And whose soul replaced hers in Morn's wound?

The Matron's Finnest was put into the wound to free Pannion's sister at the end of MoI, that's what replaced her.

I don't know that the Crippled God freed him; the impression in the story was that the Matron took that long to wake up and dig out of the mound, and that she was somehow able to communicate with Pannion during that whole time, which is why they were so close after - I thought the Matron had been the one to get him out. I may be wrong.

Murrin wrote:The Matron's Finnest was put into the wound to free Pannion's sister at the end of MoI, that's what replaced her.

Ah. Makes sense. I don't remember her Finnest being made, but, even with three readings, I forget plenty. Heh. (Good thing an Azath didn't pop up and grab the Finnest first. )

Murrin wrote:I don't know that the Crippled God freed him; the impression in the story was that the Matron took that long to wake up and dig out of the mound, and that she was somehow able to communicate with Pannion during that whole time, which is why they were so close after - I thought the Matron had been the one to get him out. I may be wrong.

Yeah, 300,000 years ago (in the prologue) Pran Chole said it would take a while for her to get out. Can't guess how long before the present of the books she finally did, but probably not terribly long, in the scheme of things. But I don't remember getting any clear impression of how long she and Pannion were in communication. I didn't assume it was before she freed herself, though. Ah well.

Onos T'oolan wrote:

Murrin wrote:The Matron's Finnest was put into the wound to free Pannion's sister at the end of MoI, that's what replaced her.

Ah. Makes sense. I don't remember her Finnest being made, but, even with three readings, I forget plenty. Heh.

Yup. Read those scenes in the book today. I remembered so much of it (meeting Pannion's sister; Where Pannion and sis end up; Pannion and Kilava's interactions...), but entirely forgot about the Finnest.

Onos T'oolan wrote:

Murrin wrote:I don't know that the Crippled God freed him; the impression in the story was that the Matron took that long to wake up and dig out of the mound, and that she was somehow able to communicate with Pannion during that whole time, which is why they were so close after - I thought the Matron had been the one to get him out. I may be wrong.

Yeah, 300,000 years ago (in the prologue) Pran Chole said it would take a while for her to get out. Can't guess how long before the present of the books she finally did, but probably not terribly long, in the scheme of things. But I don't remember getting any clear impression of how long she and Pannion were in communication. I didn't assume it was before she freed herself, though. Ah well.

Reading those final scenes just now, it does make more sense that the Matron grabbed Pannion right away, even if it doesn't flat-out say it. That idea is sorta contradicted by Pannion's feelings for Kilava, because of all the pain she caused him. It does seem to me that he's talking of a long time of pain in the Rent, but I guess he could be talking about the pain the Matron caused him. Which never would have happened if Kilava hadn't screwed up so badly.


And back to my feelings about Kilava:

Pran Chole turned to study the central mound on the plain. "Oh," he whispered, "but it has." He glanced back at his fellow Bonecaster. "Tell me, will you in turn give up your life for those children? They are trapped now, in an eternal nightmare of pain. Does your compassion extend to sacrificing yourself in yet another exchange?" He studied her, then sighed. "I thought not, so wipe away those tears, Kilava. Hypocrisy ill suits a Bonecaster."

"And oh how I remember you, Bonecaster! You sent us into that wound - you -"

"I was mistaken," the woman said. "I thought - I believed - it was a portal into Omtose Phellack."

"Liar! You may be flesh and blood, but in your hatred for the Jaghut you are no different from your undead kin. No, you'd discovered a more horrible fate for us."

"No. I believed I was saving you."

"And you never knew the truth? You never realized?"

Paran watched the woman's expression close, her eyes flattening. "I saw no way of undoing what I had done."

"Coward!" the Jaghut shrieked.

just started 1st reread of MOI.

*rubs hands together*

--A

I had forgotten about QB dropping Kallor in that hole. Hilarious.

This book.................I don't even......................

Indeed...

Agreed. I'm just coming up on the siege of Capustan and I'm already gritting my teeth...

Wait 'til you hit the Chain of Dogs man...

--A

Here comes a big claim: MOI may be the single best fantasy book I've ever read. It is incredible in every aspect. I don't even know where to begin with all the things I loved about it. And hated, in a good way. (Whiskeyjack? NOOOOOO!)

I feel exactly the same way. So very difficult to say it IS the single best fantasy book I've ever read, but I'll say it is at least tied for best with maybe some others. I can't think of what those others might be, but I don't want to rule out the possibility.

Now wait until you read DG. I've read the first four books three times now. Every time I read DG, I think it's not possible to find a better book. Then I read MoI, and I think it's better. But I have to wonder what would happen if I read them in the reverse order. Let me know. Either way, they're the best two ever.

umhm. *bobs head vigorously* what tool said. yup yup.

i however cannot pin down just one or two of the malazan books.
it's the world, it's the best fantasy world i've ever read. it almost
doesn't matter to me what takes place in it. that being said, MOI pretty much cemented that for me.

Yeah, DHG not only got me into the series, but every time I read it, I think it's the best.

The Wickans! The Wickans!

On the other hand, HoC brings both those stories together...and come to think of it, the first part also runs concurrent with both DHG and MoI. Starting before either for that matter.

--A

Cambo wrote:Here comes a big claim: MOI may be the single best fantasy book I've ever read. It is incredible in every aspect. I don't even know where to begin with all the things I loved about it. And hated, in a good way. (Whiskeyjack? NOOOOOO!)

Just wait until your first re-read, when everything makes sense!

Stonemaybe wrote:

Cambo wrote:Here comes a big claim: MOI may be the single best fantasy book I've ever read. It is incredible in every aspect. I don't even know where to begin with all the things I loved about it. And hated, in a good way. (Whiskeyjack? NOOOOOO!)

Just wait until your first re-read, when everything makes sense!

On that note, a question: how did the betrayal of Rath'Fener cause the descent of Fener himself? What's the cause and effect there? Did the ascendancy of the god rely on the loyalty of his worldly representatives?

Cambo wrote:

Stonemaybe wrote:

Cambo wrote:Here comes a big claim: MOI may be the single best fantasy book I've ever read. It is incredible in every aspect. I don't even know where to begin with all the things I loved about it. And hated, in a good way. (Whiskeyjack? NOOOOOO!)

Just wait until your first re-read, when everything makes sense!

On that note, a question: how did the betrayal of Rath'Fener cause the descent of Fener himself? What's the cause and effect there? Did the ascendancy of the god rely on the loyalty of his worldly representatives?

*cough* Read Deadhouse Gates *cough*

yeah we can't answer that one for you yet Cambo