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Galactic Milieau books by Julian May

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 9:48 am
by stonemaybe
...as promised elsewhere.....

Some comments:

The most complete, neatest time travel story I've read (along with Anubis Gates maybe) with no paradoxes I can see.

A huge array of interesting characters all with their own believable agendas.

Not really any good guys and bad guys. Most characters (all?) have both good and bad aspects and talents and faults and even the Howlers come good!

Combined fantasy / sci-fi / legend unlike any other series I've read.

A golden suit with hundreds of pockets!

Telekinetic tug-of-war!

And every second-hand bookshop in the UK seems to have them in stock!

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:45 am
by Infelice
These are some of my favourite books rating behind The Chronicles of TC and LoTR.

From what you have described you are referring to The Saga of The Exciles where maladjusted citizens of 22nd century earth, which has encountered alien invention and become a member of a galactic federation, have opted to travel back in time to the pre human Pliocene Epoch to exist in a more simple life.
Julian May also writes a prequel to this saga "The Galactic Milieu Trilogy" and a prequel to that "Intervention" that tells the story of the Galactic Invention that led to the events told in "The Saga Of the Exciles" and also the fortunes of the Remillard family. These books have some true villains and heroes... wonderful characters such as Marc Remillard (The Angel of The Abyss), Jack the Bodiless and his wife Dorothea Mac Donald or Illusio Diamond Mask as she is affectionately known. Then there is the insipid evil of the Hydra and of course the most evil of all... Fury.

LOVE LOVE LOVE these books.

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 10:53 am
by stonemaybe
Sorry Infelice you are right - most of my comments are about the 'Saga of the Exiles' books. Haven't re-read the other ones enough to have them word-perfect yet!

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 11:21 am
by Infelice
Thats ok Stone... but you REALLY need to those books. They are even better than the Saga. ;)

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2006 7:38 pm
by Roland of Gilead
Julian May is my favorite female writer.

The Saga of Pliocene Exile is just crackerjack entertainment. As previously mentioned, great characters, all distinct and three-dimensional, both male and female. Consistent quality throughout the series, very imaginative and colorful, realistic intrigue, exciting action, sympathetic villains . . . highly recommended. :yourock:

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 4:07 pm
by Fist and Faith
I read JtB. It didn't have the kind of psychological/philosophical content I generally look for in books, even if what I'm after can only be called pseudop/p, so I didn't look for the next books. However, I couldn't get the whole thing out of my mind, and tried to get them later. Alas, they're not available here, so I'll have to go the used route. The book was really fun, with cool aliens (with great names! :)), and an excellent exploration of mental powers.

And, to be fair, there is at least some of the type of thing that always catches my eye. I've posted this excerpt before. This is a conversation between a mother and son. I've removed a couple sentences and several individual words to avoid spoilers, and because some of it didn't have anything to do with this topic. I love this conversation. It reflects some of my values, and puts God in what I think is a very good light.
Jon Paul Kendall Remillard had philosophical difficulties with the concept of Christmas. That the scraggly little evergreen tree his mother was trimming was a midwinter hope symbol was easy enough to understand from the explanations and mental images Teresa offered. But the notion of God creating a body for himself to wear – and even Creation itself – bothered Jack.

“It seems a very strange and unnecessary thing for God to do. To become human so that we’d love him rather than fear him. If he’s truly a Supreme Being then it follows that he has no need of any other entity to ensure his own happiness. Especially entities that are so imperfect by their very nature that they will inevitably befoul an otherwise orderly creation. I can understand God creating the physical universe for fun. But why create other minds when you know they’re going to mess things up?”

“I believe famous human thinkers have debated those point. I seem to remember that the theologians of early times were quite positive that God had no absolute need to create other thinking persons,” Teresa said. “This is perfectly ridiculous, of course, since the theologians were willing to concede that he had done it and must have had a good reason. Now, unless we’re ready to admit that a Supreme Being can be capricious or wishy-washy, it follows that he needed to do it. He did need us.”

“But what prompted God’s need of us?”

“Love,” said Teresa.

“That’s irrational.”

“Exactly. I don’t believe anyone has ever reasoned out a satisfactory answer to God’s need of us. Those religions outside the Judeo-Christian tradition rarely hit upon the notion of a loving God at all. As for natural philosophy, loving-kindness would not be an attribute that one would logically deduce that a Big-Bang-Creator-God would have.”

“Hardly.”

“But love is the only motive that seems to make any sense. Without it, you have the Creator-God as a game player trying to assuage his cosmic boredom, caring about us only as game pieces. That is to say, not caring very much! Now, if God wanted us to know that he created us out of love, he’d have to tell us, since we couldn’t figure it out for ourselves. He’d have to get directly involved with us, rather than let us tick along obliviously the way the evolving non-sapient universe does.”

“I suppose so…”

“There are any number of ways he might have done this. But put yourself in God’s position and try to decide the most elegant way to get involved with your thinking creatures. The way that is at once most difficult and unlikely but has the potentiality to succeed in the most magnificent manner imaginable.”

“Not the easiest way?”

“Hevens, no! What would be the satisfaction in that? I can sing ‘Happy Birthday to You,’ but I get more satisfaction doing the mad scene from Lucia, even if it tires me out terribly.”

“I understand.”

“God’s most elegant way of involving himself with us would have to be a scandal to the stodgy-minded and a delight to minds that have a sense of humor and of adventure. As his mind does.”

“God can laugh?”

“Of course, dear, and feel sorrowful, too. A Supreme Being without those attributes wouldn’t be supreme. Grim and joyless people try to pretend otherwise, but their arguments are unpersuasive.”

“Explain to me how God became directly involved with us.”

“It has happened differently on different worlds in the Galaxy. On ours, I believe that the primary involvement happened through the Jewish people and the Christians. It’s a long story, and you’ll really have to read it in the Bible. That book is a fascinating account of human moral evolution, with historical and deeply mythic truth all mingled in a wonderful mishmash. It’s a literary treasure as well as the word of God, and some parts of it are profound, and some are fascinating and some are poetic, and some are even a bore, and parts of Saint Paul make me want to scream. I’m sorry that I haven’t read the whole thing myself. Different religions interpret the Bible in different ways, but we Catholics believe that when the mentalities of one single key tribe of extremely intelligent people were finally mature enough to grasp the concept of a loving God, God simply spoke to them.” She laughed. “Well – perhaps not simply.”

“And the tribe accepted his messages and passed them on?”

“Some members did. Others kept slipping and sliding back into primitive notions of angry gods that constantly needed to be appeased with blood sacrifices and other rubbish. God had to keep coaxing them and smacking them down the way a loving mother has to do when her children are naughty, and – well, you must read the Bible and discuss it with people who know more about it than I do. Your Mama is a very poorly educated person, especially in religious studies. I’m probably explaining this all wrong.”

“Is love the motivation for all creation, then?”

“I imagine so. Mental lattices within our normal Reality can’t exist without the other five kinds, and vice versa. If God wanted to make minds to love, he had to make the whole cosmos. And it is quite lovely, most of it.”

“But to create for the love of it seems so odd!”

“Of course it does. It really makes no sense – in a rational view of the universe. And yet every artist knows the truth of it. And every healthy adult human knows that people who are in love want the whole world to be as happy as they are. If you are God, loving yourself or even being Love in some mysterious fashion, and there aren’t any other minds to share happiness with – then you make some.”

“So one may conclude that God does need us?”

“Most of our coreligionists today believe it’s true.”

“And the problem of the created minds being imperfect? And sometimes evil?”

“I think that has something to do with advanced chaos theory, which I’ve never been able to make head or tail of. You must ask your big brother Marc to explain it. There’s also some principle to the effect that it is much more glorious to make something wonderful out of imperfect parts. The very imperfection of the individual elements – even when there’s actual evil involved, as there often is in human affairs – challenges God to greater creative heights.”

“What a strange idea.”

“There’s an old proverb that says: ‘God writes straight with crooked lines.’ Human history is just full of crooks and twists and twines. One would think anarchy or barbarism or the lowest common denominator would have triumphed ages ago. But is hasn’t. All the messes and atrocities and disasters have somehow been woven into a construct that looks better and better every year – at the same time that some things look even worse! The world is a wonderland compared to the world that existed only forty years or so in the past. That’s because most people have easier lives in the Galactic Milieu than they did before the Great Intervention. But even so, there are still persons who are discontented or who are villains, and situations that are evil or tragic. Nevertheless we children of God continue to evolve and improve on every level, almost in spite of ourselves. That also has something to do with nonlinearity and chaos. And God’s love, too.”

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2006 5:39 pm
by stonemaybe
Roland wrote:
Julian May is my favorite female writer
I've often wondered whether Julian is a man or woman, and disgracefully seeing as she/he is one of my fave authors, I've never bothered to find out!!!!

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2006 4:08 pm
by tonyz
I actually like the four Pliocene books better than the others. (Well, maybe <i>Jack the Bodiless</i> is good, but <i>Diamond Mask</i> and <i>Magnificat</i> just don't do it. They feel like very inadequate prequels.)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:47 pm
by Roland of Gilead
When I first read The Many-Colored Land back in 1984, I wondered if Julian was male or female, too, and back then, it was difficult to discover much about an author, especially if they weren't particularly famous.

I like Pliocene Exile the best of her stuff, too. But I also quite enjoyed her Rampart Worlds trilogy, even though most critics and fans think she was playing it more for laughs than a serious work.

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2006 8:25 pm
by Phantasm
Must get round to re-reading those books soon - great story, characters and plot

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:50 pm
by Trapper
I prefer Intervention and the Milieu trilogy to the Saga of the Exiles myself. I liked the way she brought in juicy concepts like the Tunguska incident, blowing up whales, etc, and she'd gotten a lot better IMO at making your jaw drop at what the characters were capable of. I couldn't really relate to any of the characters in the Saga.

As Stonemaybe said in the first post it's just a wonderful exploration of the concept of time-travel.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 3:14 pm
by Creator
I like them all!! :D

Although I've read the sequel most recently (years ago.)

I also agree, the time travel proces was intelligently handled.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 12:59 pm
by ur-monkey
I think the Galactic Milieu Trilogy is totally awesome, as are the first 2 books of the Saga of the Exiles (bks 3 and 4 have some stunning moments but for me, too many of the best characters were dead by then).

Julian May can certainly give SRD a run for his money in many departments. The richness of her Milieu is staggering, so many beautiful little touches like her incredibly detailed descriptions of the various bizarre flora and fauna of the colonised 'human' worlds, the giant intelligent squid-like Krondaku with a passion for fine single malt scotch, the 8ft feathered Gi who have been known to die with pleasure at human operas, little Poltroyans who are obsessed with sickly sweet foods and garish costumes - I could go on. Her characters are comparably vivid too, with convoluted, intricate dynastic secrets and perversions among the Remillards, the 'First Family of Metapsychology', psychic vampires, prochronistic mutants like the fascinating, endearing Jack the Bodiless and his flambuoyantly-dressed Scottish missus who went on to become Galactic-Age Saints. I mean...WOW! :D :biggrin: :D It's an absolute treasure-chest of tragedy, comedy, darkness and light. A real tour-de-force of imagination. Can't recommend it highly enough.

Some of the best characters I've ever encountered are in Julian May's books.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:27 pm
by Trapper
I agree with you ur-monkey. She has created a world vast in its scope, although in an entirely different way to SRD or Tolkien.

I have finally laid my filthy little hands on a copy of JTB after mislaying my original several years ago, and it is simply fantastic stuff.

What I really love, as I said above, is that by this stage May had really learnt how to shock the reader. Learning what the Paramounts could do was indescribably cool. That's the only way I can put it.

Re-read the Saga a year or so back, and was so shocked by Felice being even close.

I'm not sure how to black out spoilers, so I won't say any more.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:35 pm
by ur-monkey
I think Felice was (temporarily) even worse than the paramounts. Some sort of 'Mental Nova' as Sebi-Gomnol (another top character) may have put it.
Spoiler
Her torture by Culluket, and her subsequent murder of Amerie who she loved, kicked off something in her brain comparable to what happened with Denis/Fury. They're the only 2 who could ever D-Jump barebrained. Remember, she paid Marc a visit and fried his arse. 8O

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:45 pm
by Trapper
Yeah, you're right. I guess for me it really shows the difference between Marc Remillard and "Atoning Unifex". She seems to think that even the very best can learn from six million years of experience. Can't say that I disagree. :D

Again, I'm not sure how to black out spoilers, but JM reveals that secret at the end of "Intervention" anyway.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 4:52 pm
by Trapper
ur-monkey, I'm thinking of starting a new game of Football Manager soon.

If you're not a football fan then, as I said to Avatar recently, please feel free to respond with a heartfelt "FO".

But if you have a soft-spot for either Rovers or City then I will start at that club.

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 7:55 pm
by Phantasm
Trapper439 wrote:ur-monkey, I'm thinking of starting a new game of Football Manager soon.

If you're not a football fan then, as I said to Avatar recently, please feel free to respond with a heartfelt "FO".

But if you have a soft-spot for either Rovers or City then I will start at that club.
If you REALLY want a challenge at Football Manager, start off with Aberdeen. :D

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:13 pm
by Trapper
Phantasm wrote:
Trapper439 wrote:ur-monkey, I'm thinking of starting a new game of Football Manager soon.

If you're not a football fan then, as I said to Avatar recently, please feel free to respond with a heartfelt "FO".

But if you have a soft-spot for either Rovers or City then I will start at that club.
If you REALLY want a challenge at Football Manager, start off with Aberdeen. :D
(In my best Ali G voice):

For real?

Posted: Fri Aug 18, 2006 8:34 pm
by Trapper
Just straying back on topic because the thread deserves it:

Stonemaybe said in the first post on this thread:

"Not really any good guys and bad guys. Most characters (all?) have both good and bad aspects"

While I would agree that the Hydra were not totally to blame for what they did, they ended up being pretty much as bad as anyone in any book I've read.

I was, on the other hand, surprised and delighted by who Fury was (another juicy concept from JM there, bringing in the whodunnit aspect).