Kevin's Watch

Okay - I may be jumping ahead a little bit, but I just re-read one of Steve's poems ("Loss" - posted on the official site), and the end of it causes me some concern about the title of this final book in the series:

I am acquainted with loss.
And I do not mean the mere
loss of dreams.
From that bereavement
all men suffer
and none die.
Nor do I mention the more cunning,
the insidious
loss of love.
That loss corrodes the heart's reserves
until the last hope
has soured
or leaked away,
but it is not death.
I am acquainted with the loss which terminates,
the final period.
That loss gives no pain
because it makes no promises.
It damages nothing
because it permits nothing.
And so it is not loss at all
or gain,
it is only the dark.
But from that dark
there is no resurrection
and no return
to the mere, insidious
glory of the living.

why does it concern you -- it is pretty foregone that the Final Dark means the end of the Land, in one way or another....

gives one pause, doesn't it?... <shudder>

Well I think we all know that the TC series perhaps will not have a 'happy' ending, but I bet my raver's hat that it will be good and satisfying.

Usivius wrote:gives one pause, doesn't it?... <shudder>

Well I think we all know that the TC series perhaps will not have a 'happy' ending, but I bet my raver's hat that it will be good and satisfying.

Just what does a Raver's Hat look like?

iquestor wrote:why does it concern you -- it is pretty foregone that the Final Dark means the end of the Land, in one way or another....

Well now, I do have to disagree. The title Final Dark can have many interpretations, and the end of the land is certainly not what I think of. When I hear Final Dark I think of the end of darkness...the end of Lord Foul.

Ozment wrote:

iquestor wrote:why does it concern you -- it is pretty foregone that the Final Dark means the end of the Land, in one way or another....

Well now, I do have to disagree. The title Final Dark can have many interpretations, and the end of the land is certainly not what I think of. When I hear Final Dark I think of the end of darkness...the end of Lord Foul.

However, SRD told us repeatedly that by the end of TLC, Covenant will destroy the Land (his own words)... so it's a pretty safe bet that, in one way or another, the Land we've known (and possibly its world) won't be there anymore.

Agreed. The end of WGW taught me not to expect happy endings from this author. Nice poem though.

(And this belongs in a Last Chrons Forum I think?)

--A

Well now, I do have to disagree. The title Final Dark can have many interpretations, and the end of the land is certainly not what I think of. When I hear Final Dark I think of the end of darkness...the end of Lord Foul.

ALso, SRD uses the term Final Dark as a symbol of death at the end of WGW, when Linden leaves the Land after healing it. He also uses it in his poetry. I think we can safely assume that this is no coincidence.

He also uses terms similar to "The Final Dark" in describing Covenant's determination and several events at the end of WGW... here's a link to a thread I started about it in the Runes forum:

kevinswatch.ihugny.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9245

Well, I'm not ready to dismiss Ozment's opinion wholesale. SRD has hinted at many things, but I'm also keeping in mind what he's said about "misdirecting" the reader. That's all I have to say. Flame at will.

Nice poem by SRD, though. Thanks, Romeo.

Agree with Matrixman - I wouldn't take SRD's words on what Covenant will or won't do at the end of the Last Chrons too literally...he's hardly going to give us such a whopping, straightforward spoiler as that, I believe. There is bound to be a twist (if not several twists) to the clues he has given us, and even the clues implicit in the forthcoming titles.

Personally, I'm sort of expecting an ambiguously bittersweet ending, something in the spirit of

the seed in which the flower grows / survives.

[/i]

iquestor wrote:why does it concern you -- it is pretty foregone that the Final Dark means the end of the Land, in one way or another....

Well, I never thought I'd be *contributing* to the Land's demise.

But I have hope. When SRD gives short, "off the cuff," answers (like the one where he said "it will be called The Last Chronicles because the Land would be destroyed" - or something like that - I don't remember if "destroyed" is the word he used), you can almost never take them at face value. The Land "ending" or "being destroyed" is just - to borrow the phrase - too simple. I'm expecting something much more complicated - like the end of the Narnia series (which I still don't entirely understand). Even more so since the Covenant books borrow elements as heavily from that series as from LotR. I don't expect it to be a "happy" ending - but I don't think he's going to close out those ten books on a sour, "you die, she dies ... everyone dies" note. (heh heh heh heh - gotta love that scene!)

Runes Spoiler:

Spoiler

And perhaps the word Dark doesn't refer to the Void. Remember that Anele refers to the ur-viles as "the Dark Ones."

I know - it's a stretch. But you can't figure out Donaldson's plots by walking a straight line. It's more like, "crawl crawl stagger stagger get-shot fall-down crawl crawl crawl stagger weave-left ..."

Okay,heres one for you,no one has considered the mere idea that the final dark is TC himself.The end of his life in a "Final Dark"of his own,remember the guilt debt TC carries,the debt he really wants to repay.By the Final Dark could be when he himself is wiped out completely with Lord Foul.Remember that TC loves the land(after a great deal)and is genuinely p.o.ed when he learns of the Sunbane.Personally I don't think the Creator would have chosen him to destroy everything.Yes,Yes i do know the creator did say it was a calculated risk putting TC on the Land and the very possibilty of him wrecking it entirely,BUT,remember there is also love in the world.

Avatar wrote:Agreed. The end of WGW taught me not to expect happy endings from this author. --A

WGW ending not happy??? Lord Foul was diminished, a new staff of law was formed, and Linden healed the land. The sunbane was ABOLISHED. lol

That's not happy?

Perhaps it will end with Covenant ... waking up ... getting into a shower and yelling to his wife Joan about the odd dream he had!!

Ozment wrote:

Avatar wrote:Agreed. The end of WGW taught me not to expect happy endings from this author. --A

WGW ending not happy??? Lord Foul was diminished, a new staff of law was formed, and Linden healed the land. The sunbane was ABOLISHED. lol

That's not happy?

Spoiler

And the main character died.

Warmark: Linden is alive and well at the end of WGW. Do you rave?

The final dark is like a night without sunrise. It is the End. That's why in WGW, when Donaldson uses the phrase, he says it's a place where no sunbane can reach. It's death. You can't corrupt life in the absence life.

I think the end will be heart-wrenching. There will be victory, but it won't be a victory over death itself. The Land, like life, will end. The victory will be a moral victory, not allowing the finality of death to undo our love/hope/resolve. Lord Foul will be defeated--maybe. But his defeat won't be a final defeat. Despite isn't something we can ever eliminate completely from our lives. Perhaps he won't threaten the Land anymore (because the Land will be gone), but he will still threaten people where ever there are people who feel things like love and despair. Though this is a fantasy novel, it's really about what it's like to be human. It's about us. What will your own final dark be like? What is your attitude towards this ultimate end? Do you just not think about it? Well, you're reading Donaldson's Ode to the End.

Stonemaybe wrote:Warmark: Linden is alive and well at the end of WGW. Do you rave?

Spoiler

The Second Chronicles of Thomas Covenant.

What role do you think the sandgorgons will play in the FC?